R value?
03-24-2016, 12:10 PM
#76
Drifting
Bingo. Feel exactly the same. To my eyes, which admittedly have less vision these days, the GT3 is right at that line of being over the top, but didn't cross it. The GT3 RS crosses it and keeps going for a few miles. The 991 R just looks too plain to me.
But that is so subjective! And fortunately, we have awesome choices to fit any taste.
But that is so subjective! And fortunately, we have awesome choices to fit any taste.
I am thinking that we might underestimate the changes that have been made to the R until first drives are possible. I don't think that we will see the R as a pure "parts bin exercise", but rather as a finely tuned package that showed us that modern cars, even though getting bigger and heavier can be fantastic fun.
From the top of my head:
- new 6 speed gear box
- single-mass flywheel
- retuned rear wheel steering
- reduction of insulation (should improve engine sound in car)
- 70 kg lower weight than the GT3 (and probably more like 100 kg in most cases since the majority will pick steel brakes and the club-sport package with a roll-over bar adding even further to the weight difference).
Also don't forget that most GT4s (the deal of the century in my eyes) will be specced with steel brakes and perhaps also the roll-over bar and therefore ending up at the same weight as the R. The R however has the 500 hp engine revving to almost 9000 RPM. If the R is anything like a GT4, but with that engine, it should be pretty good.
I might not be entirely objective since I fell in love with the car from day 1, but any way. :-)
From the top of my head:
- new 6 speed gear box
- single-mass flywheel
- retuned rear wheel steering
- reduction of insulation (should improve engine sound in car)
- 70 kg lower weight than the GT3 (and probably more like 100 kg in most cases since the majority will pick steel brakes and the club-sport package with a roll-over bar adding even further to the weight difference).
Also don't forget that most GT4s (the deal of the century in my eyes) will be specced with steel brakes and perhaps also the roll-over bar and therefore ending up at the same weight as the R. The R however has the 500 hp engine revving to almost 9000 RPM. If the R is anything like a GT4, but with that engine, it should be pretty good.
I might not be entirely objective since I fell in love with the car from day 1, but any way. :-)
03-24-2016, 02:25 PM
#77
Nordschleife Master
I think Porsche has gone a bit soft with their GT3 and RS. They just proved to us that they can go the extra mile with weight loss and other features. Isn't that what they just did in the R? They just have to make future 3's and RS's a bit more raw.
03-24-2016, 02:42 PM
#78
Nordschleife Master
They won't. Look at the majority of buyers : they're past their prime sort to speak,complain about the uncomfortable seats(buckets),need feature comforts,like heated/cooled seats,heated steering wheel,they complain about squeaky brakes,harsh ride,too low and need a better stereo. It's pathetic really... They should all be driving GL 450s,if you ask me...
Porsche knows who's got the dough $$$ to buy these cars...and the majority aren't driving enthusiasts happy with a steering wheel and a stick. In a way,one must pay very close attention to what AP is saying in the EVO's introduction of the 911R...he says : if we'll be sure there's a larger market for raw/pure/light/no gimmicks driving machines,we will build them. Us talking here that we want that car is not enough for Porsche to comfortably build the car in higher numbers and know that it will sell.
Porsche knows who's got the dough $$$ to buy these cars...and the majority aren't driving enthusiasts happy with a steering wheel and a stick. In a way,one must pay very close attention to what AP is saying in the EVO's introduction of the 911R...he says : if we'll be sure there's a larger market for raw/pure/light/no gimmicks driving machines,we will build them. Us talking here that we want that car is not enough for Porsche to comfortably build the car in higher numbers and know that it will sell.
03-24-2016, 06:16 PM
#79
Nordschleife Master
They won't. Look at the majority of buyers : they're past their prime sort to speak,complain about the uncomfortable seats(buckets),need feature comforts,like heated/cooled seats,heated steering wheel,they complain about squeaky brakes,harsh ride,too low and need a better stereo. It's pathetic really... They should all be driving GL 450s,if you ask me...
Porsche knows who's got the dough $$$ to buy these cars...and the majority aren't driving enthusiasts happy with a steering wheel and a stick. In a way,one must pay very close attention to what AP is saying in the EVO's introduction of the 911R...he says : if we'll be sure there's a larger market for raw/pure/light/no gimmicks driving machines,we will build them. Us talking here that we want that car is not enough for Porsche to comfortably build the car in higher numbers and know that it will sell.
Porsche knows who's got the dough $$$ to buy these cars...and the majority aren't driving enthusiasts happy with a steering wheel and a stick. In a way,one must pay very close attention to what AP is saying in the EVO's introduction of the 911R...he says : if we'll be sure there's a larger market for raw/pure/light/no gimmicks driving machines,we will build them. Us talking here that we want that car is not enough for Porsche to comfortably build the car in higher numbers and know that it will sell.
03-24-2016, 06:31 PM
#80
Race Director
This is great, I'm in my late 50's and based on your info I'm still in my prime (wait until I remind my wife later). I love the lwbs, hate heated/cooled seats, not a fan of heated steering wheel, enjoy the squeeling brakes and rattles of the tranny, low and harsh ride reminds me I'm in somewhat of a sports car and I never listen to the stereo. You just made my day, (I'm still in my prime).
Porsche made my car.
LOL
03-24-2016, 06:34 PM
#81
Race Director
You're right, the 991 GT3 is just below the line for everyday use. To most it's a 911 with a wing, but those who are in the know will notice the front and rear bumper venting, the ride height, the stance, the width of the wheels, the centerlocks, the buckets, etc. The RS screams with obnoxious colors, a wing that came straight from import tuner, and cheap, black ABS plastic all over the car.
Of course, those people are crazy.
03-24-2016, 06:51 PM
#82
Nordschleife Master
This is great, I'm in my late 50's and based on your info I'm still in my prime (wait until I remind my wife later). I love the lwbs, hate heated/cooled seats, not a fan of heated steering wheel, enjoy the squeeling brakes and rattles of the tranny, low and harsh ride reminds me I'm in somewhat of a sports car and I never listen to the stereo. You just made my day, (I'm still in my prime).
You're definitely in your prime Bronson,I saw your pic!
03-24-2016, 09:00 PM
#83
Just saw the R in person and spent some time with it.
Looked better in the pictures and lacked presence in person. GT4 parked next to it had more presence, really think it needs a darker color to show off the roof and head lines, then maybe delete the roof stripes. Stripes looked pretty contrived in person...
One thing that was very odd is it still seemed to have speakers in the door with the radio delete. I hope this is a pre-production issue and not PAG cutting corners...
Confirmed my view that I wouldn't pay a premium.
Looked better in the pictures and lacked presence in person. GT4 parked next to it had more presence, really think it needs a darker color to show off the roof and head lines, then maybe delete the roof stripes. Stripes looked pretty contrived in person...
One thing that was very odd is it still seemed to have speakers in the door with the radio delete. I hope this is a pre-production issue and not PAG cutting corners...
Confirmed my view that I wouldn't pay a premium.
03-24-2016, 09:26 PM
#84
Racer
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I totally agree with this car just not having that punch in person. Just seems they've tried a bit too hard with interior and decals -Not for me, especially at the premiums discussed. Too many choices in that price range
03-24-2016, 10:01 PM
#85
Intermediate
I really don't care about the 911R...and don't crave it either. Lucky me, I am crazy in love with my GT4. Love the fact GT4 is mid engined and MT with 911 engine ;-)....and for lot less money.. I get at least 7/10ths of the 911R. I get to spend an additional 0.5 seconds enjoying the ride. I am seriously not in a hurry to get to my destination. The 911R is too fast for me.
I don't care for future values since I am not taking it with me to the other side and my kids are in love with Uber and refuse to drive. I am going to get my value seat of pants style.
Like Jeremy Clarkson once said...I like to take my time to masticate my steak rather than wolf it down. GT4 punches all the buttons for me and some.
I don't care for future values since I am not taking it with me to the other side and my kids are in love with Uber and refuse to drive. I am going to get my value seat of pants style.
Like Jeremy Clarkson once said...I like to take my time to masticate my steak rather than wolf it down. GT4 punches all the buttons for me and some.
03-24-2016, 11:06 PM
#86
Race Director
The 911R was not built for us. It was built to reward the 918 loyalists and the select group enthusiasts. This was probably contrived in a bar over drinks saying- " would not it be great to have this engine in a a low key 911 with a Manual". Throw on a plaque and with less than 1000 built and it becomes a classic and Porsche puts a future check in all their pockets. Also, it covers the money they lost in the 785 2014 engines they replaced.
I am cool with that. Because they will trickle the Manual to the 991.2 GT3 and most who want a Manual will be happy. Will never be worth the value of the 911R but who cares.
I am cool with that. Because they will trickle the Manual to the 991.2 GT3 and most who want a Manual will be happy. Will never be worth the value of the 911R but who cares.
03-25-2016, 02:32 AM
#87
Three Wheelin'
People already talking down the R before they even (if ever) get a chance to drive it. Too much speculation and jealously. Everyone in their right mind would buy one at MSRP if they had the opportunity and funds. It's a quick $100k + min flip if you truly hated the vehicle. Nothing to lose.
03-25-2016, 05:02 AM
#88
People already talking down the R before they even (if ever) get a chance to drive it. Too much speculation and jealously. Everyone in their right mind would buy one at MSRP if they had the opportunity and funds. It's a quick $100k + min flip if you truly hated the vehicle. Nothing to lose.
03-25-2016, 07:27 AM
#89
People already talking down the R before they even (if ever) get a chance to drive it. Too much speculation and jealously. Everyone in their right mind would buy one at MSRP if they had the opportunity and funds. It's a quick $100k + min flip if you truly hated the vehicle. Nothing to lose.
03-25-2016, 08:44 AM
#90
Race Director
People already talking down the R before they even (if ever) get a chance to drive it. Too much speculation and jealously. Everyone in their right mind would buy one at MSRP if they had the opportunity and funds. It's a quick $100k + min flip if you truly hated the vehicle. Nothing to lose.