R value?
03-23-2016, 09:01 PM
#61
Nordschleife Master
Bingo. Feel exactly the same. To my eyes, which admittedly have less vision these days, the GT3 is right at that line of being over the top, but didn't cross it. The GT3 RS crosses it and keeps going for a few miles. The 991 R just looks too plain to me.
But that is so subjective! And fortunately, we have awesome choices to fit any taste.
But that is so subjective! And fortunately, we have awesome choices to fit any taste.
03-24-2016, 04:07 AM
#62
03-24-2016, 04:19 AM
#63
Rennlist Member
The 991 GT3 to me is what the 911 used to be.... car that you can daily drive, take the track regularly, take on a date.... a car that looks special, but not crazy exotic and showy. The RS is too much, I'm not parking that thing at work.
The regular 991 911s and the 911R look a bit plain, not like a sports car and more like a luxury sedan.
All IMHO, of course.
An R doesn't interest me other than for investment purchases.
03-24-2016, 07:26 AM
#64
I am thinking that we might underestimate the changes that have been made to the R until first drives are possible. I don't think that we will see the R as a pure "parts bin exercise", but rather as a finely tuned package that showed us that modern cars, even though getting bigger and heavier can be fantastic fun.
From the top of my head:
- new 6 speed gear box
- single-mass flywheel
- retuned rear wheel steering
- reduction of insulation (should improve engine sound in car)
- 70 kg lower weight than the GT3 (and probably more like 100 kg in most cases since the majority will pick steel brakes and the club-sport package with a roll-over bar adding even further to the weight difference).
Also don't forget that most GT4s (the deal of the century in my eyes) will be specced with steel brakes and perhaps also the roll-over bar and therefore ending up at the same weight as the R. The R however has the 500 hp engine revving to almost 9000 RPM. If the R is anything like a GT4, but with that engine, it should be pretty good.
I might not be entirely objective since I fell in love with the car from day 1, but any way. :-)
From the top of my head:
- new 6 speed gear box
- single-mass flywheel
- retuned rear wheel steering
- reduction of insulation (should improve engine sound in car)
- 70 kg lower weight than the GT3 (and probably more like 100 kg in most cases since the majority will pick steel brakes and the club-sport package with a roll-over bar adding even further to the weight difference).
Also don't forget that most GT4s (the deal of the century in my eyes) will be specced with steel brakes and perhaps also the roll-over bar and therefore ending up at the same weight as the R. The R however has the 500 hp engine revving to almost 9000 RPM. If the R is anything like a GT4, but with that engine, it should be pretty good.
I might not be entirely objective since I fell in love with the car from day 1, but any way. :-)
03-24-2016, 07:34 AM
#65
Race Director
Completely agree. This is why I love my GT3, and plan on getting a .2GT3
The 991 GT3 to me is what the 911 used to be.... car that you can daily drive, take the track regularly, take on a date.... a car that looks special, but not crazy exotic and showy. The RS is too much, I'm not parking that thing at work.
The regular 991 911s and the 911R look a bit plain, not like a sports car and more like a luxury sedan.
All IMHO, of course.
An R doesn't interest me other than for investment purchases.
The 991 GT3 to me is what the 911 used to be.... car that you can daily drive, take the track regularly, take on a date.... a car that looks special, but not crazy exotic and showy. The RS is too much, I'm not parking that thing at work.
The regular 991 911s and the 911R look a bit plain, not like a sports car and more like a luxury sedan.
All IMHO, of course.
An R doesn't interest me other than for investment purchases.
Just personal preference, and what the eyes like. Definitely not because of cost.
03-24-2016, 07:34 AM
#66
Track Day
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I am thinking that we might underestimate the changes that have been made to the R until first drives are possible. I don't think that we will see the R as a pure "parts bin exercise", but rather as a finely tuned package that showed us that modern cars, even though getting bigger and heavier can be fantastic fun.
From the top of my head:
- new 6 speed gear box
- single-mass flywheel
- retuned rear wheel steering
- reduction of insulation (should improve engine sound in car)
- 70 kg lower weight than the GT3 (and probably more like 100 kg in most cases since the majority will pick steel brakes and the club-sport package with a roll-over bar adding even further to the weight difference).
I might not be entirely objective since I fell in love with the car from day 1, but any way. :-)
From the top of my head:
- new 6 speed gear box
- single-mass flywheel
- retuned rear wheel steering
- reduction of insulation (should improve engine sound in car)
- 70 kg lower weight than the GT3 (and probably more like 100 kg in most cases since the majority will pick steel brakes and the club-sport package with a roll-over bar adding even further to the weight difference).
I might not be entirely objective since I fell in love with the car from day 1, but any way. :-)
I thought PCCB was standard on the R. Are steels an option?
Also, does Porsche quote the weight of the R without stereo and A/C?
Wondering what the apples to apples weight comparo is between the R vs RS. I'd guess they are not as different as the official quoted figures if comparing with equal equipment.
03-24-2016, 07:43 AM
#67
I thought PCCB was standard on the R. Are steels an option?
Also, does Porsche quote the weight of the R without stereo and A/C?
Wondering what the apples to apples weight comparo is between the R vs RS. I'd guess they are not as different as the official quoted figures if comparing with equal equipment.
Also, does Porsche quote the weight of the R without stereo and A/C?
Wondering what the apples to apples weight comparo is between the R vs RS. I'd guess they are not as different as the official quoted figures if comparing with equal equipment.
The weights stated by Porsche are always for a car in its lightest possible spec with all fluids and 90% full tank. For a GT3 this means PCCB, no AC, no radio, no roll-cage, lightest seats, 64 l tank, light weight battery, no further options. Anything different than this will increase the weight of the car above the stated weight.
The same of course goes for the R.
03-24-2016, 09:04 AM
#68
Completely agree. This is why I love my GT3, and plan on getting a .2GT3 The 991 GT3 to me is what the 911 used to be.... car that you can daily drive, take the track regularly, take on a date.... a car that looks special, but not crazy exotic and showy. The RS is too much, I'm not parking that thing at work. The regular 991 911s and the 911R look a bit plain, not like a sports car and more like a luxury sedan. All IMHO, of course. An R doesn't interest me other than for investment purchases.
However the 991rs to me takes the gt3 spot. So there is room in the lineup for a more track focused RS.
The R is a beautiful car! Would be a great DD if rear seats was available and not limited production. More like speedster or an anniversary model to me.
03-24-2016, 09:12 AM
#69
I'm 39, more concerned about driving feel vs looks. Was disappointed by the 991 3, thought the R might address some of what I didn't like.
Think I will make a 4.0 boxster spyder if the R doest work out - the only current generation Porche I've loved is my 3.8 981 made in 2014.
Think I will make a 4.0 boxster spyder if the R doest work out - the only current generation Porche I've loved is my 3.8 981 made in 2014.
03-24-2016, 09:25 AM
#70
Platinum Dealership
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I'm 39, more concerned about driving feel vs looks. Was disappointed by the 991 3, thought the R might address some of what I didn't like. Think I will make a 4.0 boxster spyder if the R doest work out - the only current generation Porche I've loved is my 3.8 981 made in 2014.
03-24-2016, 09:38 AM
#71
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Great way of putting it. So in conclusion, this really isn't people not liking something because they can't afford it. If you gave me a choice of the 911R, 991 GT3 RS, 991 GT3 or 997 RS 4.0, and they all cost the same, I am going 991 GT3. If I could do the 4.0 clutch, that would be second. Just personal preference, and what the eyes like. Definitely not because of cost.
Okay well send me the 4.0/Rs leads!!
03-24-2016, 10:01 AM
#72
Race Director
I am thinking that we might underestimate the changes that have been made to the R until first drives are possible. I don't think that we will see the R as a pure "parts bin exercise", but rather as a finely tuned package that showed us that modern cars, even though getting bigger and heavier can be fantastic fun.
From the top of my head:
- new 6 speed gear box
- single-mass flywheel
- retuned rear wheel steering
- reduction of insulation (should improve engine sound in car)
- 70 kg lower weight than the GT3 (and probably more like 100 kg in most cases since the majority will pick steel brakes and the club-sport package with a roll-over bar adding even further to the weight difference).
Also don't forget that most GT4s (the deal of the century in my eyes) will be specced with steel brakes and perhaps also the roll-over bar and therefore ending up at the same weight as the R. The R however has the 500 hp engine revving to almost 9000 RPM. If the R is anything like a GT4, but with that engine, it should be pretty good.
I might not be entirely objective since I fell in love with the car from day 1, but any way. :-)
From the top of my head:
- new 6 speed gear box
- single-mass flywheel
- retuned rear wheel steering
- reduction of insulation (should improve engine sound in car)
- 70 kg lower weight than the GT3 (and probably more like 100 kg in most cases since the majority will pick steel brakes and the club-sport package with a roll-over bar adding even further to the weight difference).
Also don't forget that most GT4s (the deal of the century in my eyes) will be specced with steel brakes and perhaps also the roll-over bar and therefore ending up at the same weight as the R. The R however has the 500 hp engine revving to almost 9000 RPM. If the R is anything like a GT4, but with that engine, it should be pretty good.
I might not be entirely objective since I fell in love with the car from day 1, but any way. :-)
03-24-2016, 10:11 AM
#73
Race Car
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I am thinking that we might underestimate the changes that have been made to the R until first drives are possible. I don't think that we will see the R as a pure "parts bin exercise", but rather as a finely tuned package that showed us that modern cars, even though getting bigger and heavier can be fantastic fun.
From the top of my head:
- new 6 speed gear box
- single-mass flywheel
- retuned rear wheel steering
- reduction of insulation (should improve engine sound in car)
- 70 kg lower weight than the GT3 (and probably more like 100 kg in most cases since the majority will pick steel brakes and the club-sport package with a roll-over bar adding even further to the weight difference).
Also don't forget that most GT4s (the deal of the century in my eyes) will be specced with steel brakes and perhaps also the roll-over bar and therefore ending up at the same weight as the R. The R however has the 500 hp engine revving to almost 9000 RPM. If the R is anything like a GT4, but with that engine, it should be pretty good.
I might not be entirely objective since I fell in love with the car from day 1, but any way. :-)
From the top of my head:
- new 6 speed gear box
- single-mass flywheel
- retuned rear wheel steering
- reduction of insulation (should improve engine sound in car)
- 70 kg lower weight than the GT3 (and probably more like 100 kg in most cases since the majority will pick steel brakes and the club-sport package with a roll-over bar adding even further to the weight difference).
Also don't forget that most GT4s (the deal of the century in my eyes) will be specced with steel brakes and perhaps also the roll-over bar and therefore ending up at the same weight as the R. The R however has the 500 hp engine revving to almost 9000 RPM. If the R is anything like a GT4, but with that engine, it should be pretty good.
I might not be entirely objective since I fell in love with the car from day 1, but any way. :-)
- i was expecting more to be an R
than a tuned , but still too heavy for R, manual gearbox from regular Carrera
(Ricardo just established in 2014 their offices in Weissach
so a bright future for Next models trasmission is sure)
- overall, by the market, an overvalued car because limited
03-24-2016, 10:43 AM
#74
Race Director
The RS, while I think it is an awesome car, is just too flashy for me. And I have had surgery on my left knee, so that stiff clutch in the 4.0 is a tough one. And just not a fan of the 911R. But that's me. I am sure a lot of guys would pick something else.
Even if you said the 991 GT3 market price was a bit more than the other three, I still would have bought it. The hardest decision would have been between the 4.0, not the other two.
03-24-2016, 11:35 AM
#75
Rennlist Member
The base NA 981.1 Boxster is the best looking new Porsche, IMO, and any hp above 250 is completely useless on my back-roads. This is the purist Porsche of today. It's biggest problem is that it's too cheap for the "purists" to even notice it -- and maybe not being a 911 with stripes and numbered plates.