SanDiegoDavid

My G engine is scheduled for "release" on April 11 but there is no information where it's being released from. Are all engines coming from a single warehouse in Germany? Are some prepositioned in places like Ontario, CA?

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

I think an action group is the best way to help PCNA understand that just changing heads on an engine that has been chewing up the valve train and hoping that the oil filter removed all the metal filings before doing damage to bearings/rings/oilpump internals etc... isn't the right play.

Does anyone stateside have contacts with the UK guys that did this?

Macca

No data has been captured on anything more than mileage of car, mileage on track, mileage at failure and engine designation E or F with notes on the cylinder misfiring and in a couple of examples any extraordinary failures such as the finger rockers snapping their lugs. With a dataset this small you can't track all the data mentioned like modifications and tyres and come to any statistical conclusion. Even driving style could be a factor in when it happens but not IF it happens IMO.

The facts are pretty straightforward to me. E engines and F engines will need remedial top end work under warranty in the future. PAG will likely cover this for the life of those cars. G engines are still unknown but could suffer from similar maladies after 2-3x the mileage.

Again no engine is wear proof. After 10,000 miles and 50 hard full track days on the track I would full well expect to have to spend some money replacing something on the engine. This is a 9000 rpm unit capable of well over 500 Bhp and 350lbft if uncorked (I.e. dunson race headers), so run regularly in SportAuto mode on track it's bound to need some work after 100 "race hours".

In terms of an Action Group, I don't see it quite honestly. PAG will manage these issues one case at a time through the warranty process. Everyone will get sorted eventually.

Macca

Hi Jamie. The history is on this board. Myself and Sunil. But it was a super human effort and a massive expensive of time and resources (meetings with PAG in Atlanta, website, letters to CEO of Porsche, worldwide media campaign with hiring some help, interviews and pledges, partitions and databases). Whom ever takes this on now for the engine warranty needs to go in eyes open as its a mammoth task and PAG now see this as a warranty issue. The only damage will be done now is to GT3 resale value and PAGs Reputation (which will be short and recover quickly)...

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

Hmmm... Suppose we are just a few dudes with concerns about our toys, vs a multi-billion dollar company... Likely not the right fight to pick...

robmypro

I agree with this 100%. Not worried at all.

Macca

We have been there Jamie and didn't do too badly. The U.K. Guys got on board through Sunil and got a result (compensation). It was harder to organise the US media side as its fractionalised. We did get a good support effort and I'd like to think it made a difference to USA owners and how they were treated but I suspect Porsche had loaded the freight train and sent it on its path long before we could make an ultimate difference. The history is on these pages and over at other sites. It was a major effort and a lot of the old timers on here were part of the program. We had 200 folk signed up to the campaign and happy to put their details to PAG.

I'm happy to assist anyone who wants to try this again but I honestly don't think it will produce results. The 3.8L is dead, one 9000 rpm iteration only which PAG have spent more than any production engine in history to get right. It forms the basis of their MA176 RS engine (in fact in its G iteration I suspect it's essentially identical) and this forms the basis for their MA1XX GT3RSR cup car engine which is again revised. All of this is simply leading us up to the next get GT3/RS which will have a 4.0L engine based on identical architecture of the MA175/6 units but hopefully with all of these failings addressed. I doubt we will see the rev line in the next generation increase much over the 8600 it is now, perhaps a true 8800 would be nice before folks start to click on that they were not so transparent in their last RS headline claims!

The only thing that I feel is certain is they will never have a 3.8L high revving 9000 rpm engine again. The 991.1 GT3 will be unique in this regard. PAG have 3500+ units out there they need to support for at least another few years on their own dime so I would expect they will have the issues fully addressed over the next 12-18 months. If you hold onto your 9000 rpm GT3 long enough it will even likely become a collectors piece LOL!

All IMO of course.

carz80am

I was told they all come from Germany. I asked my dealer and PCNA the same thing as my car was taking forever. Both stated no engines sitting stateside, all come from overseas...

SanDiegoDavid

Thanks for info. That's what I figured. They probably don't FedEx them in!

Jimmy-D

I agree with Macca, very strongly, that an action group would destroy the values on the 991.1 GT3. I think all that will be done is we would be hurting ourselves. I have no more skin in the game but would never want to see that happen to this car. I would though like Porsche to address our concerns and their position on protecting their very loyal customers down the road on this variant. I think as long as they continue to keep every one happy when issues arise than all is good. If they are going to take short cuts than that is a whole different issue

bronson7

I agree Jimmy, but my only concern is for the owners who plan on keeping their car beyond warranty. At some point if we plan on selling past warranty, what are the values to be like? Lot's of concerns for the right reason.

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

This and we know from the IMS bearing, coolant fittings exploding, resonance issues in the 997.2 GT3 and now the oiling issues in the 991 GT3, sometimes porsche does just enough to get the cars out of warranty and then the owners are on their own...

Alan C.

Knowing what I know I don't think I would consider buying an E or F engine car out of warranty. Others may vary.

<3mph

Ever wonder why we saw THREE years of the 991.1 GT3? Pretty much everyone was shocked when they kept producing them in MY2016.

Well, given what's been going on with these engines, here's a theory (all complete conjecture on my part).

Hypothesis #1: this was a deliberate step by PAG to deflect the engine woes from sullying the GT3 name, a name which they've built up over the years and which was aligned closely with a very loyal and passionate group of owners.

Hypothesis #2: I suspect they realized very early on during 2014-2015 through ongoing testing efforts that the E and then F engines were flawed, and that even the DLC remedy wasn't cutting it.

So they needed to overhaul the oiling system (ergo G, which was originally destined for the RS), and a decision was made to allow a certain number of GT3s to get this engine too (not just the RS). This decision was made to protect the 911.1 GT3 from being tarnished by the bad lot of E and F engines (not to mention the pre-stop sale 'E' engines).

That is to say, by putting a durable G engine into even a limited run of 2016 GT3s, it allows one to separate the engine woes from the GT3 moniker. Now it's just an E and F engine problem. Not a GT3 problem.

I think this was strategic. And I'm actually quite pleased they did this. Hopefully when the faulty engines get sorted out, the 991.1 GT3 will not be remembered primarily for these flaws, but for the overall amazing car that was delivered.

Well, that's my theory anyway. We'll probably never know for sure when they discovered these wear issues, but I think it was quite a while back (maybe even as a surprising second coincidental problem when the rod bolt issues were identified), hence the ongoing evolution of the engines to correct the continued and unresolved deficiency (DLC, then oiling upgrade).

CALSE

I am at about 1,500 track miles and 19,000 total on my "E" to date. Hope CEL doesn't pop up at COTA.