Haha well said Charles! We all know that the hp gains are real and of course legit.. That's also the reason why a lot of guys here are excited to try out your headers. Im sure many here are curious about this including me, at first when I saw it I was immediately amazed about the long tube design! I was quite sure that it would make a lot of hp, better sound, 321ss material and the craftsmanship.... Simply stunning!!! The only thing holding me back before was the cat delete design which we have a solution already.

 

I don't think I would call it an old school approach. New engines these days are highly developed to where just improving the flow doesn't do much. There is A LOT more R&D involved at this level and countless days spend designing and testing and improving to get to where we are at.

The term "Long tube header" I actually dislike. The correct term should be more like "calculated tuned length"

One engines long tube headers are another engines shorty's. If I should put it that way.

DFI, varriable cam timing on intake and exhaust, along with varriable resonance and length intake manifolds, these are all things that can make or break you on these newer engines. You have to know how to incorporate this into your design correctly or else it is very easy to go backwards and lose power.

You have to understand, to atleast some degree, the actual wave movements in these engines to be able to compliment them more and help improve them to increase cylinder fill. Otherwise you are just shooting in the dark with an imaginary gun at someone with night vision goggles and an AK47....

 

 

Question.....without doing ECU flash/tune, does the OEM ECU system eventually adjust itself & negate (or even reduce) any power gains after adding aftermarket headers, exhaust etc etc?

THX

 

Well said Charles. You have to remember that this crowd is typically very, very well educated, and it's their nature to ask questions. I don't think anyone means anything negative by it. It's just healthy skepticism. I learned this lesson when I did my dyno test of the valve operation, and it seems 50% understood and 50% still had questions about the conditions and validity of the test. I learned to appreciate the diligence rather than take it as a personal attack.

 

This is a great question. Charles...what are the limiting measurements with concerns to the OEM ECU? Doesn't the ECU constantly measure torque? Would one have to get a "ECU tune" to keep these systems from controlling the parameters?

 

Matt, I agree. Usually I have more issues with other venders or "trolls" but i suppose so does everyone else. But its only human nature to call BS on everything that you dont understand or dont think is possible because thats what you want to believe.

We are actually not sure on the adaption over time. Only way to know for sure is to log a lot of miles on a car and then hit the dyno again. I do think it is possible though that since we are so far above the TQ limiter that It does want to reduce power somewhat. You cant completely cut it off though. I do think the top end nose dive will driving in higher gears is real and noticeable so eliminating that will help...

This exhaust is best suited with the full tune and flash in reality. The catted version may be better suited for the stock DME.

 

↑↑↑↑ Thanks for the clarification.....

 

The one thing that I have thought about is injector duty cycle. As a package, when released by engineering, they would known the typical max number. Would the ECU look at that and dial it back over time as in adapting? I'd think an extra 45 hp would raise the duty cycle.

 

Yes. But direct injection is different. It also raised fuel pressure so when you run out of time inbetween cycles to injection more fuel the pressure can be increased.

 

This is the opposite of collaboration. It is simply a vendor passively discrediting the results until its verified by their own dyno.

It would be like DMS sending its headers to Manitowoc County Sheriff's office for testing.

No where does GMG state what will happen as a result of the verification, like offering to sell the headers or put them on their customer cars. That would constitute a form of (sic) collaboration.

I am sure DMS has a lot of time and money invested into this product, so if I were in their position, the last thing I am going to do is send my product to a competitor with the risk of having them copied (and before I could sell a few sets and pay off my debts).

Just imagine DMS asking GMG to send them every part they sell for independent testing. yawn.

 

I would like to buy this man a beer

 

Actually, you can, when you fly out here to tune his car

 

It's potentially a catagory killer product, no surprise that other manufacturers are concerned. The catted version has an even larger audience, I'm waiting to see it.

 

Well, I choose to look at things with a POSITIVE view instead of negative.