Manifold

The RS had N1 tires, which are apparently much better in the rain than the N0 on the GT4.

Tre

I'm sorry, I do wholeheartedly respect each of your comments as they've served up a lot of wisdom over the 18+ months I've been following RL. But it seems as though much of the highly sought after comparisons and opinions is to further help people justify their choices. I've said it before, but if you chose a 3 and are happy with it, why do you care whether the RS is better or worse? If comparisons started coming out claiming the RS was seconds faster on a short track, would 3 owners begin dumping their cars? I don't think so, because they love their cars and are happy with their decisions. And if you've chosen the RS, the same theme applies.

The GT3 enjoyed 2 years of glowing reviews, albeit the temporary deviating press due to the stop sale, and STILL continues to get high remarks in pretty much every RS review when journalists start by asking how Porsche could improve on an already AMAZING car (GT3). And if the RS is indeed a handful, shouldn't that make people who have been told through reviews that the 991 generation has become more clinical to drive? Doesn't the "handful" nature hark back to earlier generations?

Again, I apologize for my soapbox as I don't have the street cred as everyone else, but this just seems to mirror the same debate that transpired when the 1.3 came out and the 7.1/2 loyalists nit picked.

Macca

Tre. I think we all agree the RS is the faster and better resolved car. This thread was about folk that could relay direct comparisons between the two on the track and as their is limited press or real life comparison to that question at this time I guess we have just drifted off topic somewhat. However even so it's an interesting discussion as an interlude. The RS has the munitions on board to punch well above the Gat3. From wider track, more tyre contact patch, suspension improvements, aero, exotic materials not least to mention the capacity, power and torque increase. We GT3 owners in absence of real life feedback and comparisons in track and between our track buddies have simply started addressing a few interesting questions on this thread. IMO the RS will be the car I would be chasing around my local track (with only 10 confirmed cars for NZ and non of these at this time looking like they will see track time this remains somewhat academic). I don't think we have uncovered any flaws here with the RS rather just traits that as you say perhaps make it the more hardcore choice for the go fast crowd at the experienced track hacks. It's all good, nothing untoward intended. But please remember we also were the ones taking gullets here 2 plus years ago from every man and his dog on this board with regards RWS, PDK, "too fast for the road, electric steering, size etc vs previous generation cars - most of which the journos appear to have accepted or even embraced in the RS reviews, so we have earn our stripes I feel to take some objective and in some case realistic views of what these cars are to one another. Questioning the RS credentials over the GT3 is foolhardy no doubt, so many changes have been made to the car body in white and otherwise to make it what it is, like others however I'm curious mostly to whether the changes have made a significant performance improvement on track or simply a mild evolutionary one....

997s07

Tre may have a point - if people are indeed trying to justify their purchases (but I don't know if that's the case). I can give the perspective of someone who traded "down" from a 997.2 GT3 to a 997.1 GT3. I drove the .1 and sold the .2 the next week - to me the .1 demanded more attention and was more raw, and therefore better fun. I don't buy and sell cars like I would commodities. I buy them and drive them until they die. I drove the 991 GT3 and it didn't suit me. I drove Formula 4 cars, and some other open wheel race cars. That's when you realize that road going GT3s of any variety are not race cars. These are über sports cars. No delusions. Drive all the varieties you want, we are not race car drivers and our paychecks don't come from race teams, cars don't define us in my opinion. So their "ring" times or their engine statistics don't reflect on our societal worth. Just my 2¢.

Superman32

I mean most people will choose rs over gt3 if not considering the price differences.

Macca

Did it a bit different. To sell the GT3 and buy the RS was a difference equal to the GT4. GT3 depreciated already 30% in our market. RS already depreciating too. Everything here depreciates as soon as you drive it out the showroom...

Laguna_Dude

MSRP to MSRP; RS is my choice for sure; for me the big issue comes with the "market adjustment". I bought my GT3 well before the first RS' where made. So it wasn't like i made a choice over RS. I have never owned a regular GT3 before now.. only 997.1 RS, 997.2 RS and a 997.2 Cup... so as someone who has lot's of experience driving these cars; especially RS at the track.. and fast; I simply can't see and fathom the $100-150k over MSRP for an RS vs. getting a GT3 at MSRP of below.. i have tracked my GT3 and am 100% confident that the performance % of GT3 w/Trofeo R's is 98% of an RS, yet is selling at 35% of the price of an RS... so I am simply stating that the current "market" price for RS is too high and the real value is in the GT3.... for someone really wanting to enjoy the car and drive it hard. now if the RS bubble pops and gets back to MSRP; I will be the first to sell my GT3 and get an RS...assuming i could find a white one with sport buckets and no fluff options.

Macca

This is an exceptionally good point and why I suspect we will see the most serious track rats around the world using GT3 on the track (unless someone is hardcore and lucky enough to get a RS at list and track it hard like Trackcar and a few others on here).

However if you say 140k for a track car or 250k for a track car 2-3% faster the car half the price then that is a significant difference..

Laguna_Dude

I suspect a 991 RS is about 1.5 (+/- 0.5) seconds faster per 60 second lap vs GT3; stock for stock (both on Cup 2's). RS can only use 1 tire; a Cup 2; no other tire will fit. However, a GT3 can use Trofeo R's, which are good for over 1 second per 60-second lap over Cup 2's. So a GT3 on Trofeo R's is within 0.5 a second per lap vs. RS, but is only 35% of the cost of a "market adjusted" RS. Will Pirelli ever make a Trofeo for RS? Possibly; but I do know Hoosier is making R7's to fit GT3 and that will push it's performance per lap beyond a stock RS on Cup 2's.

TRAKCAR

I haven't driven a GT3 but I have 6000 mostly track miles, I have to pipe in because I've never driven a more stable hooked up car than the RS by a huge margin to the point I had a lot of trouble wrapping my head around how to get the car to trailbrake.

I can confirm opposite.

I think it's bilsterberg, little tight corner track with lots of elevation change. A strange track to release the car I've always thought as its more at home in big tracks. I skipped BB and went to the big fast tracks. All of them have very tight hairpins and sure in second gear the rear let's go because no more downforce but mostly because I had fun tossing the car into those corners but careful braking and throttle kept the car stable if you need it to be.

This between rake alignment and away bars you can make it to anything you want. Do BB the car would be as loose as possible because no huge fast corners to take advantage of a planted rear and for an intro day on a slow track is set it up "playful"

Must be set up for BB and or make it easy for hooligan slides..

Exactly.

+2

This is what I got from every Cayman I drove just twitchy under braking and weird rotation. It's my only worry getting the GT4.

I'm useless at the Ring but that's where I made the most mistakes and the car was always there. At Spa RedBull Ring Paul Ricard, Magny Cours and Hockeheim all safe fast big tracks I pushed the car over the limit. I've pushed it, overdrove it to the point that I'd spin or crash twice a session doing that in a 997RS.. I had some very good coaches help me. The car is so planted, so controllable that you just can. SC comes in very late. I am a slow careful learner and in 2 days I would be 2 seconds off the fast guys roughly, except Spa I was slower my first 2 days in the car on a safe track. So driving between 991GT3 l's that had better drivers in them who knew the track while I was learning the track and the car, it is very easy to see that the RS is faster. It's not faster on the straight. Maybe slower even. But in long corners I'm sitting on used tires following a GT3 on new tires and they are stuggeling mid corner to keep the car under them, they also have to brake earlier. They left me because better drivers but I could stay near enough to see where I was faster and where they were faster.

I'd say the extra speed all come from more grip, front rear and slow and fast corners.. Sure difference is bigger in fast corners.. Loose is the last thing that comes to mind regarding RS. I added rear ride height, more take, toe out more front toe in rear less and it bacame easier to rotate but still way more stick than I ever could get out of a 997RS

My 0.02c

karimgt3

Thank you very much.

Confirmed that this thread is nothing but a playground for bashing..

TRAKCAR

If the RS does not self distruct long term it's everything I could hope it to be. I needn't worry about losing the manual. RWS makes it a better more fun car just like the GT3.
Remove the idiot parking brake, allow the seats to move back and forward more, provide some technical data for customers to set it up and avoid excessive rubbing and it's perfect.

Macca

Yes we come hear to bash the 991 GT3 and add not value to discussions on these boards.......???

Macca

Peter. Very interested to hear all of this. I understand you have been emerged in family matters these last few weeks so did not expect to hear from you yet in detail about your GT3RS experienced in Europe even though I followed your thread every day. I was always awaiting your grand summary on the car but now I have it in some part at least.

So it would seem that the RS is very stable in fast sweepers and corners and here it's extra traction and aero give it a superior edge. That makes sense to me. I suspect it needs a different set up for BB and smaller tighter tracks...

It sounds like you had the benefit of some of the more experienced in the business to get the car set up etc but I do agree it would be nice if the factory could offer better direction here. I agree with you about the handbrake too - the thing I hate most of all along with PDK for s multiple turn carpark manovour using reverse gear!!

You shouldn't underestimate your driving skills either. You may have been new robotise tracks but you have more track seat time than almost anyone I know and you obviously pick the tracks up quickly...

TRAKCAR

Thanks. Rennlist / Porsches are a needed distraction.
911rox made a ton of cool pics while aboard and one day I'll finish the thread up, maybe he will throw some on or I will after the car and myself get back to home and we continue tracking and experimenting with setup.

I've sat next to the Porsche Supercup championship leader and he drove my car at 8/10 maybe (for him) and he made the car do things I can't. He estimated that the car could do I think a 1.52 and at the end of the weekend I got there. This means he can go faster for sure and that means the car is faster than he estimated. He drove a bunch of 991GT3 but not RS and wouldn't take mine to the limit.
This was at Magny Cours and since he has tested the RS for a magazine along with other cars. Maybe I'll drop him a mail. But with his help we pushed very hard at Magny Cours and by myself at Hockenheim these were the last 2 tracks so at that point I know that car much better. At the Red Bull ring it was my 3rd day in the car after 2 days Spa and I only had one day, but the track is easy so I threw around the car there as well to get a respectable lap time out of it in 1 day, specially in the last corner. So I understand the car pretty well now, I had limited time at each track so I overdrove the car much more than I would normally plus I learned how good the SC is so that gives you that extra confidence. I will really see at Sebring where I hope my rhythm will come back to compare better to 997RS without much driving.

This car is just so impressive on tires that you can drive om in in the rain!
It can make you a worse driver quickly if you are happy to just pass most people and have no reference as to what's really fast in an RS.

Porsche has been quiet about rubbing problem, I expected something out of them by now, but maybe I have missed it.

Someone can make some real money with a parking brake defeat system, no doubt.