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Hey RB, are your ST rotors also refurbishable 5 times? Nice black hats!
Probably they are, but so far we only handled once for a GTR customer and frankly we prefer a set up that consumers don't have to deal with the original supplier/mfgr for refurbishing/replacement unless you disagee. ST discs are good but are more "exclusive" in material and design (incompatible with Brembo), and once you purchase their disc/rotor you are bound to go back to them, and in case something happened you are stuck - This was our bitter experience as they changed their distribution, no prior notice, no response from our queries just no more disc, that's it.
We have since switched ST disc and our brake design to use Brembo discs*. We know Brembo will survive, and we purchase discs from GM dealers (just like you can after you purchase RB kits) - The availability is always there and price is more reasonable and stable. In conjunction with Brembo rotors, we have also successfully developed our sintered pads which can "magically" restore the damaged CCM rotors due to overheat, so with this combo you practically never need disc replacement, then why bother "refurbishing".
We expect RB CCM will continue gaining its popularity in all applications,(see latest release for Ford Focus RS), improving driving comfort on street or tracking / racing arena, a CCB system not only affordable to own, but making a lot of good sense to use.
*We still have some ST discs in stock that can build for pccb replacement (410/390) and standard brake (380/380) upgrade. Please check our web listing or contact us if you are interested in them. http://www.racingbrake.com/category-s/7200.htm
Last edited by RacingBrake; 01-30-2018 at 07:19 PM.
Here is the current availability for ST rotors on Porsches, although this may change in the near future with the new generation cars. Keep in mind that this is for fitment on factory PCCB AND Iron rotors as the calipers are the same just spaced differently. All the ST kits for factory iron rotors come with the necessary hardware spacer/bolt kits to reposition the caliper to utilize the larger ceramic rotors.
991/991.2 GT3, GT3RS, 911 R, Turbo and Turbo S
997/997.2 GT3, GT3RS, GT2, GT2RS, GT3 Cup, Turbo and Turbo S
981 Cayman GT4
996 (most models)
Thanks for the info, John!
Fwiw, I think you could have quite a market for 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS/T, as those cars are all under-braked imo. The turbo 3.0's torque out of turns changes everything, on both street (base .2 brakes) and track (.2 S/GTS). Would be great to have a go-to upgrade for those cars. I put PCCB on my base 991.2, but might have gone with the standard brakes and replaced them with a CCB kit if a go-to setup was available.
And put me down as one more who would prefer black or dark gray hats. That's all we sell so far...and dark gray outsells black 3-1. ;-)
Originally Posted by RacingBrake
...our brake design to use Brembo discs*. We know Brembo will survive, and we purchase discs from GM dealers...
The availability is always there and price is more reasonable and stable.
This concept remains interesting. I came close to trying a set on my GT4, but then sold the car.
Peter,
Thanks for the insight, too bad we can't test our CCM on your GT4. I assume those 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS/T you mentioned that are under-braked have the same brakes as GT4 brake correct ?
John at AutoQuest and/or Racing Brake....My 2017 Carrera GTS needs brake help badly.....the front caliper accepts 991 GT3 pads for the 350mm GiroDisc rotors and the GiroDisc I’m using has increased the rear to 350mm rotors but still has to use a Special Carrera S/GTS size pad due to the caliper I think...but I just saw a post above show gt3 and s/GTS pads marked in a rear caliper??
I tried Ferodo DS2500 and DS1.11 pads and they really don’t work well. The 2500 basically melted and fell off due to heat at Sebring in 2 days leaving lots of pad build up on the rotors and the 1.11 pads ate the crap out of the rotors in 2 days and the pads wore out too getting too thin and transferring heat from the thin pad material to the calipers.
My GiroDisc Rotors have probably 2-4 days left...but I’m totally lost on what pads to use....seems like Pagid RS29 Yellows is all that’s left...maybe Race Technology RE10pads?.....HELP ME !!! I want to get back on the track.
John at AutoQuest and/or Racing Brake....My 2017 Carrera GTS needs brake help badly.....the front caliper accepts 991 GT3 pads for the 350mm GiroDisc rotors and the GiroDisc I’m using has increased the rear to 350mm rotors but still has to use a Special Carrera S/GTS size pad due to the caliper I think...but I just saw a post above show gt3 and s/GTS pads marked in a rear caliper??
I tried Ferodo DS2500 and DS1.11 pads and they really don’t work well. The 2500 basically melted and fell off due to heat at Sebring in 2 days leaving lots of pad build up on the rotors and the 1.11 pads ate the crap out of the rotors in 2 days and the pads wore out too getting too thin and transferring heat from the thin pad material to the calipers.
My GiroDisc Rotors have probably 2-4 days left...but I’m totally lost on what pads to use....seems like Pagid RS29 Yellows is all that’s left...maybe Race Technology RE10pads?.....HELP ME !!! I want to get back on the track.
Sure thing buddy, I'll PM you for your number and we can chat a bit about some options. We'll be at Sebring most every event so we can support you there as well.
Probably they are, but so far we only handled once for a GTR customer and frankly we prefer a set up that consumers don't have to deal with the original supplier/mfgr for refurbishing/replacement unless you disagee. ST discs are good but are more "exclusive" in material and design (incompatible with Brembo), and once you purchase their disc/rotor you are bound to go back to them, and in case something happened you are stuck - This was our bitter experience as they changed their distribution, no prior notice, no response from our queries just no more disc, that's it.
We have since switched ST disc and our brake design to use Brembo discs*. We know Brembo will survive, and we purchase discs from GM dealers (just like you can after you purchase RB kits) - The availability is always there and price is more reasonable and stable. In conjunction with Brembo rotors, we have also successfully developed our sintered pads which can "magically" restore the damaged CCM rotors due to overheat, so with this combo you practically never need disc replacement, then why bother "refurbishing".
We expect RB CCM will continue gaining its popularity in all applications,(see latest release for Ford Focus RS), improving driving comfort on street or tracking / racing arena, a CCB system not only affordable to own, but making a lot of good sense to use.
*We still have some ST discs in stock that can build for pccb replacement (410/390) and standard brake (380/380) upgrade. Please check our web listing or contact us if you are interested in them. http://www.racingbrake.com/category-s/7200.htm
Thanks. What are the OEM GM part numbers for the replacement Brembo discs front / rear? I'm curious what the street pricing is for replacements as you mention.
Thanks. What are the OEM GM part numbers for the replacement Brembo discs front / rear? I'm curious what the street pricing is for replacements as you mention.
I think you can look it up under C6 ZR1 or Camaro Z/28 parts (way less than PCCB)
Fwiw, I think you could have quite a market for 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS/T, as those cars are all under-braked imo. The turbo 3.0's torque out of turns changes everything, on both street (base .2 brakes) and track (.2 S/GTS). Would be great to have a go-to upgrade for those cars. I put PCCB on my base 991.2, but might have gone with the standard brakes and replaced them with a CCB kit if a go-to setup was available.
No problem. I agree with you that they are under-braked as we've done some work on these cars already. For street use the brakes are sufficient but on track you've now got quite a heavy car with power levels that are quite impressive. With the speed you can get up to on track with the new 3.0TT engines combined with the weight of the car, the brakes are generating a lot of heat and may come up short in function and longevity. However, there are other crucial factors to consider than just pad compound and rotor size in resolving the issue...such as cooling those brakes down ; )
No problem. I agree with you that they are under-braked as we've done some work on these cars already. For street use the brakes are sufficient but on track you've now got quite a heavy car with power levels that are quite impressive. With the speed you can get up to on track with the new 3.0TT engines combined with the weight of the car, the brakes are generating a lot of heat and may come up short in function and longevity. However, there are other crucial factors to consider than just pad compound and rotor size in resolving the issue...such as cooling those brakes down ; )
^ Actually, they're not sufficient in street use, either—at least not when mountains or canyons are part of the equation. The brakes on a base 991.2 Carrera got hot and smelly on this single run up and down a former rally stage (video below, and you can hear me talking about the smell). https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-10/...updates-wvideo
And the base brakes got hot and smelly on a Carrera T on the old Monte route in France in December—and the pedal was less than inspiring. Same roads, same day in 500-hp GT3 Touring? No problem, and great and totally consistent pedal. Combined with drums' experience, the 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS/T is a rare case where the rotors and cooling are insufficient. I am sure the setup passed Porsches 0-100-0-100-0-100-etc test, but the system isn't up to repeated poundings corner to corner when it doesn't have time to cool back down.
The above plus drums' experience with his GTS at Sebring suggests the twin-turbo 3.0 wants brakes more like Turbo and GT3 than what we've known on Carrera-line cars. I suspect a larger rotor (or a CCB rotor) and more cooling might go a long way.
Originally Posted by RacingBrake
Peter,
Thanks for the insight, too bad we can't test our CCM on your GT4. I assume those 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS/T you mentioned that are under-braked have the same brakes as GT4 brake correct ?
Indeed, it was. The timing made it impossible. Was curious to try your setup.
No, the Carrera line brakes are smaller than the standard 981 GT4 brakes—and the base 991.2 Carrera and Carrera T get a different package from the Carrera S and Carrera GTS. The only time the 991.2 Carrera-line cars share parts with the Turbo/GT3/GT2 RS are when they are equipped with the optional 410/390 PCCB. While I love PCCB on my Carrera, I would have been very interested in an aftermarket upgrade kit with CCB rotors and new, smaller front calipers (the 410 is overkill, and creates wheel/caliper clearance issues even with 20s). Priced correctly, I suspect a lot of folks who have either caught on or will catch onto how good the .2 Carreras are will be looking for such an upgrade down the road.
^ Actually, they're not sufficient in street use, either—at least not when mountains or canyons are part of the equation. The brakes on a base 991.2 Carrera got hot and smelly on this single run up and down a former rally stage (video below, and you can hear me talking about the smell). https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-10/...updates-wvideo
And the base brakes got hot and smelly on a Carrera T on the old Monte route in France in December—and the pedal was less than inspiring. Same roads, same day in 500-hp GT3 Touring? No problem, and great and totally consistent pedal. Combined with drums' experience, the 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS/T is a rare case where the rotors and cooling are insufficient. I am sure the setup passed Porsches 0-100-0-100-0-100-etc test, but the system isn't up to repeated poundings corner to corner when it doesn't have time to cool back down.
The above plus drums' experience with his GTS at Sebring suggests the twin-turbo 3.0 wants brakes more like Turbo and GT3 than what we've known on Carrera-line cars. I suspect a larger rotor (or a CCB rotor) and more cooling might go a long way.
I'll concede to that point lol. I know a good deal of Porsche's typical 991.2 Carrera owners, and most of them don't have the confidence to push the car on the street to more similar to track conditions. I'm sure you are correct in that when pushed hard on the street, they will begin to have similar effects to those experienced under track conditions especially if they have stock pads and rotors. Shooting you over a PM now, I'd love to chat with you a bit more at length on something we're working on.
John at AutoQuest and/or Racing Brake....My 2017 Carrera GTS needs brake help badly.....the front caliper accepts 991 GT3 pads for the 350mm GiroDisc rotors and the GiroDisc I’m using has increased the rear to 350mm rotors but still has to use a Special Carrera S/GTS size pad due to the caliper I think...but I just saw a post above show gt3 and s/GTS pads marked in a rear caliper??
I tried Ferodo DS2500 and DS1.11 pads and they really don’t work well. The 2500 basically melted and fell off due to heat at Sebring in 2 days leaving lots of pad build up on the rotors and the 1.11 pads ate the crap out of the rotors in 2 days and the pads wore out too getting too thin and transferring heat from the thin pad material to the calipers.
My GiroDisc Rotors have probably 2-4 days left...but I’m totally lost on what pads to use....seems like Pagid RS29 Yellows is all that’s left...maybe Race Technology RE10pads?.....HELP ME !!! I want to get back on the track.
Here is my prescription:
1. Use correct / full size brake pad just like OE (65/66mm), and install a rotor with a proper annulus for the pad.
2. Learn from Mark on his 928 dedicated track car and tried PFC11
The above should resolve your issue, but if you track hard and often RB-CCB might be a better option in the long run; for a bullet proof performance plus saving in down time and replacement costs.
p.s. GT3 and CS/GTS rear pads are interchangeable the only difference is the weight balancer - with (GT3) or without (GTS)
^ Actually, they're not sufficient in street use, either—at least not when mountains or canyons are part of the equation. The brakes on a base 991.2 Carrera got hot and smelly on this single run up and down a former rally stage (video below, and you can hear me talking about the smell). https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-10/...updates-wvideo
And the base brakes got hot and smelly on a Carrera T on the old Monte route in France in December—and the pedal was less than inspiring. Same roads, same day in 500-hp GT3 Touring? No problem, and great and totally consistent pedal. Combined with drums' experience, the 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS/T is a rare case where the rotors and cooling are insufficient. I am sure the setup passed Porsches 0-100-0-100-0-100-etc test, but the system isn't up to repeated poundings corner to corner when it doesn't have time to cool back down.
The above plus drums' experience with his GTS at Sebring suggests the twin-turbo 3.0 wants brakes more like Turbo and GT3 than what we've known on Carrera-line cars. I suspect a larger rotor (or a CCB rotor) and more cooling might go a long way.
Indeed, it was. The timing made it impossible. Was curious to try your setup.
No, the Carrera line brakes are smaller than the standard 981 GT4 brakes—and the base 991.2 Carrera and Carrera T get a different package from the Carrera S and Carrera GTS. The only time the 991.2 Carrera-line cars share parts with the Turbo/GT3/GT2 RS are when they are equipped with the optional 410/390 PCCB. While I love PCCB on my Carrera, I would have been very interested in an aftermarket upgrade kit with CCB rotors and new, smaller front calipers (the 410 is overkill, and creates wheel/caliper clearance issues even with 20s). Priced correctly, I suspect a lot of folks who have either caught on or will catch onto how good the .2 Carreras are will be looking for such an upgrade down the road.
Got you.
Upon further checking we do offer for a 2 pc rotors made for non-s here:
RB two piece rotor is made for a "direct swap" (no pad trim, no mod.) to stock's 330x28mm 1pc for a weight saving of 2.8 lbs (17.2 vs. 20).
I am confident that this RB 2pc rotor upgrade should be able to handle your mentioned activities w/o issue, but for those who need more than that we have those larger brake set up available for upgrade
Note upgrade options are available for ex-stock shipment or 1-2 weeks leadime depending on the order contents. Due to the variation of hub (center lock or 5-lug), links are for reference only, order may subject to review and clarification to ensure proper fitment.
Last edited by RacingBrake; 01-31-2018 at 06:10 PM.
The above should resolve your issue, but if you track hard and often RB-CCB might be a better option in the long run; for a bullet proof performance plus saving in down time and replacement costs.
p.s. GT3 and CS/GTS rear pads are interchangeable the only difference is the weight balancer - with (GT3) or without (GTS)
WOW...I have been told that 991 GT3 rear pads and 991 S/GTS pads are not interchangeable....thats good to know. I wanted to try PFC11 pads but was told PFC didn't make a pad for 991 S/GTS rears. Since I changed out the stock front 350mm rotor to a Girodic 350MM rotor due to the stock hats vs the Girodisc hats I can now run 991 GT3 fronts no problem.
So with my 5 track day used GiroDisc rotors do you feel I can just swap in some PFC11 991 GT3 pads and be ok until I finish burning through these rotor disc?
01-30-2018, 04:26 PM
