aussie jimmy

yes, very well said.
this is the utter reality.

shapiroeric

I would both agree and disagree with the above.....I think Porsche is highly regarded on Fchat....I don't remember seeing too much negativity towards the brand in posts I've read....

I agree however I think there is a level of ostentatiousness compared to here.....not everyone though.....

I'm one of those drivers that only put on about 2,000 miles a year but it's not something I'm proud of....I would love to drive it more often, especially to work as I think it makes a great daily driver (as does the GT3)....Unfortunately it's not something I want my patients or staff seeing....I drove a GTR for 6 years and that was a great UTR car....I parked it right in the lot with maybe a few comments over the years about the price.....the Porsche is pushing it and I try to "hide" it from patients at the office.....it's next to impossible to hide a Ferrari...

Coincident

The posts about Porsche have a consistent theme and usually condescending when compared to anything Ferrari. But that applies to any other car in existence, including R8, Mclaren, Lambo etc. It is very rare for anyone to even suggest that any other car is preferable. Many there shudder at the thought that annual production will be increased to 10000 vehicles per annum. Comments like," there goes the exclusivity" and "soon you will see 488s everywhere" are now being made. Does it make any sense to spend over 1/4 million dollars on a car that will be driven as little as 1000 miles per year? What is the point? Ten year old Ferraris that have 15000 miles on them are considered high mileage. Ridiculous.

Coincident

Even if Ferraris were reliable and made for great daily driving, being made uncomfortable about driving it due to the inordinate amount of attention it engenders and the in your face image, causes me to abstain. Clearly, many Ferrari owners purchase the car for the image and love flaunting their perceived wealth. I am simply not one of those guys.

Gt3Fan

I've been an fchat paid subscriber/siliver section since 2006 and it's a mixed bag over their regarding perceptions of Porsche. GT3's are a big exception though and usually get a lot of respect and are not always thrown into the porsche are "clinical, not emotion ect ect" trite. I am a huge Ferrari fan, though chose the gt3 over the 458, as I knew I wanted a serious track car. At some point I will bring in a ferrari as well for street driving, as I find them beautiful, sound great ect.

Both good posts. I might add, that over the years of being a member there, there are a lot of brilliant guys in particular posting in the business section/RP and anyone could learn a lot. Strange to be on a car forum and gradually spend more time in the non car sections than the actual car sections lol. But there are truly that many remarkable minds there.

Regarding the cars, and having been an obsessed fan since I was a child, I learned, not alot of these guys track their cars and after starting a thread asking the question, I came to understand some of the why's. Some obvious, some not so much.

Obviously, the sheer cost of some of these cars, takes away much comfort pushing around a quarter million+ car on the track, understandable. The cost of the GT3 is likely currently my max comfort level for tracking. They aren't actually great track cars and cost of constables are very high. A lot of F car owners are older and are not interested in tracking. Lastly and this is no jab at F car owners, especially when I will be one, though no the typical. Many of them are collectors, and just love to look at the car in the garage or occasionally take them out for drive. It's a true occasion, when you barely drive the car. In addition, yeah there is a huge amount of often uncomfortable attention driving one and many of them, are not the stereotype portrayed but private guys, who just love and are passionate about Ferrari's. I know when I was driving the 458, the amount of attention and picture taking, often dangerously on the highway was extremely uncomfortable for me. And I just love the cars, and would be invisible if I could be. Yes, as you say there are many who purchase Ferrari's to bee seen but so many of them on Fchat are true enthusiasts and bought the car for love of the car not the attention and drama that goes along with it.

But, besides the FF, I do see a real commonality with a large segment F car owners barely driving their cars(2000 or much less a YEAR). These folks, for the most part are not drivers or track day guys but just love the beauty of starring at the cars in the garage. Nothing wrong with this but not in anyway how I get enjoyment but to each their own.

carcommander

I am active on Ferrari chat. The generalizations you just spouted are just that generalizations. IMO most Ferrari owners are just car nuts. Just like most Porsche owners.

Many on Ferrari chat including me own Porsches as well. They really like them. A 911 was my dream car in college. I own two currently.

aamersa

Porsche is the gateway drug to ferrari. Most F car owners have previously or currently own porsche cars concurrent with the F car.
Though the low mileage issue is silly indeed, it is most prevalent in the US. In ROW more owners actually drive them (but still too many garage queens for various reasons).
I am not the stereotypical 458 owner, having done 28000 kms in 1.5 yrs on my 14 Italia with 8 track days (few more to come). The only thing prohibitive is the consumable cost of ceramics on track use. I am also one of those that would rather be invisible with a F Car, as the undue attention and parking worries are what prevent it from being a daily. That's why I love my Gt3, because it is perceived as just a 911 and still is just as capable as the 458.

I have found both 458 and Gt3 to be very track worthy and real work horses on the track with no issues to report (other than adding oil in case of GT3). Have done 4 track days with Gt3 in first 45 days of ownership and many more to come including this weekend. I should add however, that if you want to go real fast on a track, radicals or ariel atoms or other race cars would be your best bet. But those race buggies were not my childhood dream cars.

Coincident

There are many parallels between cars and the business I am in which is high end audio. There are audiophiles who love the hardware, love talking about it and constantly buy and sell. They often do not even listen to music. Then there are others who enjoy the components but see them as the conduit to the enhancement of musical involvement and enjoyment. In other words, while being fascinated by the hardware, they acknowledge that the components exist to serve the music.Unlike many exotic car buyers,very few audiophiles purchase expensive gear to impress their friends or elevate their social status since the general public could careless about expensive audio gear and unlike a car, almost nobody gets to see them.

Car lovers seem to fall in these categories as well. There are those who love chatting about cars, buying and selling but rarely ever drive them. Then are those others who love everything about cars but the supreme thrill is always getting behind the wheel. For me, I fall into the latter group. There is nothing (well almost nothing) like the rush and thrill that comes from driving a great car.

MM3.9GT3

Do you understand the hypocrisy of your statements? Owning any brand of car does not make the owner fit a particular stereotype. There are great guys who own Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, McLaren etc., that I would have a beer with, and talk about cars. Then there are some owners who own the same brands I mentioned above that I would not spend two minutes chatting. It really is no different than people you meet on a day to day basis across all walks of life.

As for the original question, both are fantastic cars, but I absolutely prefer the GT3 for the track, and the 458 for the street.

ATXGT3

Bingo.

KMKCMT

My 71' Chevelle 454 is a great garage mate to the GT3...Old School...

Coincident

There is no hypocrisy in my statements. There may be some generalizations based on my experience and anecdotal evidence but my comments will use words like "generally" or "most" since any thinking human realizes there are exceptions to every generalization. My comments are not meant to disparage anyone who buys a product for its value or joy of owning it. Those who do so to be elitist or pretentious I personally view in a less flattering light.

markow

i really don't get it when i read about 'ferrari's in your face image' in the porsche GT3 forum. the GT3 has one of the biggest wings i have ever seen in a production road car, just to be beaten by the soon-to-be-released RS. that is in your face, in my book.
i had a 997 gen 2 carrera C4S, which had more problems in 6 months (before i sold it) than my 458 had in 2 years - and i drove the 458 for 22K km, through ice, snow and salt in winter and summer alike. so before you go and bash ferraris for being unreliable, just go and get the statistics right.
when you read about soulless porsches in the ferrari forum, then i agree it does not sound nice. but after all, it is rather the truth with the GT3 (RS) and the cayman GT4 being wonderful exceptions. maybe i can add the boxster and cayman GTS and the carrera GTS to the 'soulful' porsche range, the rest is SUV's and panameras anyway. and they are - for me - dull and soulless.
no offence, we are talking cars here. to each his/her own.
peter

thxbuff2001

I agree with shapiroeric. I am a ferrarichat member and a current Fcar owner. I dont care about the miles nor do I care about the cost of ownership. I would like to use it more often but I cannot. I drive my Pathfinder to work more than my MB/BMW just because for privacy. I just dont care about driving it to work anymore. Its a boring drive and a waste of miles. I dont like doctors or patients seeing me in a ferrari, they ask too many questions.

grendel88

The problem with the over $150K price range--new or used--is the mix of income classes able to afford those cars at that point. When you start getting into that upper range of cars, yes I know collectibles and hypercars easily play in the $1MM zone, the money becomes a weird thing. These cars are all ridiculous toys we can all agree. Some people will spend most of their income on these toys because they are fans, some people have the income that makes spending $250K on a car like buying a Jetta for most.

Not everyone buys a Ferrari because they love cars. I think most everyone on Fchat love cars, but there is a general arrogance there, mostly associated to Type A personalities, level of income, level of success AND the brand pushing itself as exclusive.

I love cars. I own my business. I have a GT3. I want a Ferrari. BUT, owning and driving one easily gets you stereotyped very quickly. If you are in twenties, spoiled trust fund or tech brat. If you are in your thirties, you are spending way too much money to try hard. If you are in your forties like me, mid-life crisis. Hardly anyone thinks the people that buy Ferraris just love cars. There is too much baggage. So as much as I want one and would like not to care what image I project, it is a really, really rough decision to make considering the money involved. I mean seriously, I love Michelin star restaurants and McDonalds, would suck to have a car that I can't take to both.