TC ESC
01-31-2015, 03:23 AM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I think for street driving best to keep nannies on. Even if your a seasoned vet, it's best to keep it clean on the street. best to not endanger others by drifting. And will allow you to enjoy the car and keep things in control.. especially since street is ever changing while track is repetition of same turns.
For beginners on the track; I would suggest turing ESC off, but keeping TC on (if this is possible).. the reason being is the TC will help keep the rear in-line if you get on gas too early or too hard.. once you get comfortable, turn the TC off. With nannies off you can truly learn to control the car at the limits.
I miss the days of driving events at El Toro in SoCal (abandoned airport).. where you can push hard with no real consequence besides cone burn. Really dials in the car control. The worst is attempting to learn at a high-speed track where a mistake can be very costly.
For beginners on the track; I would suggest turing ESC off, but keeping TC on (if this is possible).. the reason being is the TC will help keep the rear in-line if you get on gas too early or too hard.. once you get comfortable, turn the TC off. With nannies off you can truly learn to control the car at the limits.
I miss the days of driving events at El Toro in SoCal (abandoned airport).. where you can push hard with no real consequence besides cone burn. Really dials in the car control. The worst is attempting to learn at a high-speed track where a mistake can be very costly.
But, for me, I've driven in heavy hydroplane rain munching a Z with VDC (ESC) on going straight line at 65 mph after hitting the accelerator with low tread tires and not being able to save the car from a nasty accident with a center divider. I've spun that same Z when VDC was off after doing a hard launch. And, I have driven in snow and ice and know how to steer into a skid and, yet, I have spun out enough that I've concluded after about 30 years of driving that, as good a driver as I think I am, I'm not so good that I feel like I can turn the nannies off. I might try it out under certain DE type conditions but, really, it's pretty hard to save a car once you've past its limits.
Dan (thinks Orthojoe's sig quoting Leno is spot on)
01-31-2015, 10:19 AM
#17
Nordschleife Master
I defer to you track guys and to your opinions.
But, for me, I've driven in heavy hydroplane rain munching a Z with VDC (ESC) on going straight line at 65 mph after hitting the accelerator with low tread tires and not being able to save the car from a nasty accident with a center divider. I've spun that same Z when VDC was off after doing a hard launch. And, I have driven in snow and ice and know how to steer into a skid and, yet, I have spun out enough that I've concluded after about 30 years of driving that, as good a driver as I think I am, I'm not so good that I feel like I can turn the nannies off. I might try it out under certain DE type conditions but, really, it's pretty hard to save a car once you've past its limits.
Dan (thinks Orthojoe's sig quoting Leno is spot on)
But, for me, I've driven in heavy hydroplane rain munching a Z with VDC (ESC) on going straight line at 65 mph after hitting the accelerator with low tread tires and not being able to save the car from a nasty accident with a center divider. I've spun that same Z when VDC was off after doing a hard launch. And, I have driven in snow and ice and know how to steer into a skid and, yet, I have spun out enough that I've concluded after about 30 years of driving that, as good a driver as I think I am, I'm not so good that I feel like I can turn the nannies off. I might try it out under certain DE type conditions but, really, it's pretty hard to save a car once you've past its limits.
Dan (thinks Orthojoe's sig quoting Leno is spot on)
I agree Dan, no need to try and act like a hero on the streets, possibly endangering others. I will keep all the nannies on.
01-31-2015, 01:27 PM
#19
Nordschleife Master
There are 2 very polar schools of thought on this subject when it comes to the use of stability control systems on the track. Both have valid arguments.
On the one hand, the nannies are a crutch used to hide bad habits/technique and the system will slow you down because of intervention.
On the other hand, if you understand that smooth driving is the key to being fast, the systems should not be intrusive and are very well designed and only intervene when needed.
If you are bouncing off stability control all of the time, that is BAD
If you are relying on the stability control as a margin of safety because you'd rather take the car home in one piece than balled up, it's not bad.
I personally have not found the system to be intrusive and it hasn't slowed me down yet. While I've learned a lot about car control with the BRZ, I know I'm not perfect and would rather have an extra hand with a car as dangerously fast and expensive (to me) as this.
The stability control systems in 'lesser' cars I've driven in the past are definitely intrusive and slow you down. In my old Evo X, I gained 2 seconds by just turning the system totally off. The BRZ needs to be turned off as well. The sport mode is still way too intrusive. Porsche designs their systems very well, IMO. I don't notice intervention unless I've made a mistake and have already lost time from the mistake.
Then there is the issue of is the system truly off even though you turned it off? In the spyder, if ABS is engaged, the system turns back on. In this situation, you don't know if the system is really on or off and it's best to just leave it on so you know what you are dealing with.
(Thanks Dan for being the first to recognize that it's a great quote!)
I don't know why anyone would need to turn off the system on the street.
On the one hand, the nannies are a crutch used to hide bad habits/technique and the system will slow you down because of intervention.
On the other hand, if you understand that smooth driving is the key to being fast, the systems should not be intrusive and are very well designed and only intervene when needed.
If you are bouncing off stability control all of the time, that is BAD
If you are relying on the stability control as a margin of safety because you'd rather take the car home in one piece than balled up, it's not bad.
I personally have not found the system to be intrusive and it hasn't slowed me down yet. While I've learned a lot about car control with the BRZ, I know I'm not perfect and would rather have an extra hand with a car as dangerously fast and expensive (to me) as this.
The stability control systems in 'lesser' cars I've driven in the past are definitely intrusive and slow you down. In my old Evo X, I gained 2 seconds by just turning the system totally off. The BRZ needs to be turned off as well. The sport mode is still way too intrusive. Porsche designs their systems very well, IMO. I don't notice intervention unless I've made a mistake and have already lost time from the mistake.
Then there is the issue of is the system truly off even though you turned it off? In the spyder, if ABS is engaged, the system turns back on. In this situation, you don't know if the system is really on or off and it's best to just leave it on so you know what you are dealing with.
(Thanks Dan for being the first to recognize that it's a great quote!)
I don't know why anyone would need to turn off the system on the street.