2015 build
08-27-2014, 11:16 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Eduardo. Im conflicted as are you. At this point my money would lean towards GT3 production ceasing end of Feb 2015. But I still don't understand why.
djcxxx. My money is on Paris 02 Oct 2015. Detroit is the wrong setting IMO for a 991 GT3RS world unveil but it might work if the Paris date doesnt eventuate. It will be 991.1 shape/platform of that Im 100% sure.
djcxxx. My money is on Paris 02 Oct 2015. Detroit is the wrong setting IMO for a 991 GT3RS world unveil but it might work if the Paris date doesnt eventuate. It will be 991.1 shape/platform of that Im 100% sure.
08-28-2014, 12:13 AM
#17
Race Director
'Mike in CA' has a theory which says they don't have capacity to do both - gt3 & gt3 RS. I challenge that assumption. There is capacity if they want to do it (even a third shift, if needed)...at Zuffenhausen & other locations*. And they could also cut back on base and lesser S 'spec' 991 production at Zuffenhausen... take a look how many unsold MY2014's are sitting at US dealers right now!
"Maybe because it (the GT3) was always intended as a low volume car? Anyway, just look at the content and pricing compared to other models in the lineup. It's not for nothing that everyone keeps saying the car is a screaming bargain. Porsche can use their limited production capacity to make and sell cars with even higher profit margins than the GT3. "
and:
"I'm just throwing this out there, but maybe it's that Porsche has capacity only to build so many cars (that's a fact), and they can use that capacity to build cars that are much more profitable for them than the GT3.
Also, the GT cars and other certain models have always been limited production. The same argument about building cars for "everybody who wants one" could have been made for any one of those. Makers like Porsche and Ferrari see an advantage in maintaining some exclusivity, and frankly it's a plus for the people who manage to get a hold of those models.
Maybe some people do abandon Porsche for other manufacturers, but others like me put down deposits on a new GT3 two years in advance because they missed out on the last one.
We can second guess their methods, but the fact that they are literally the most profitable car company in the world is some indication that they know what they are doing. Just my $.02."
With regard to production capacity, when I visited the factory in June I talked about the 3rd shift issue with our guide. He indicated that it was something that they were willing to do on an emergency basis, for example with the replacement GT3 engines, but that it played havoc in general with their workforce and production processes. Assigning additional production to other locations isn't an overnight operation and has it's own associated costs and issues. I imagine Porsche would need a strong, overriding financial incentive to start that ball rolling.
Anyway, I was speculating about why Porsche might be making a decision to limit production of the GT3 at the end of February 2015 if that rumor turns out to be true. I never made any comment or conjecture about producing GT3's and RS's simultaneously.
Eduardo, you must be thinking about a different Mike....
08-28-2014, 12:19 AM
#18
Shawn maybe you could talk with 911dev and his dealer and lock down one of those 2 cars sooner than later if your not committed to your local area dealer
Awesome deal 911dev your a lucky man
Awesome deal 911dev your a lucky man
08-28-2014, 12:25 AM
#19
Race Director
I do not think it would be because of "engine liability" because the RS is due shortly and will probably be the same engine with more liters, HP, and probably a titanium exhaust. I think if they are cutting it short it is because the are falling behind on other variants ect due to the "stop sale"
09-15-2014, 02:19 AM
#20
Three Wheelin'
Macca, you are right over the target. Something definitely doesn't gel here!
Back in March of 2013, when Detlev von Platen was interviewed at the NY Auto Show for the Wall Street Journal, he made a point of saying that for 2014, 10% of all 991's sold in the US would be gt3's (1.20 min in the attached video).
Porsche CEO on the New 911 GT3 - New York Auto Show - YouTube
Since they (PAG/PCNA) were in control of US gt3 dealer allocations, that exact number (10% of all) was planned into production. At no point in the marketing of this vehicle from Geneva 2013 to the date of the stop sale earlier this year, did PAG or PCNA EVER hinted that they would be winding down the gt3 early!
In terms of the VW Group (think larger volume) and expected increased profits for each model line, it makes no sense for Porsche to pull back from producing a healthy dose (at least 10% of total 991 production) of gt3's going forward. 'Mike in CA' has a theory which says they don't have capacity to do both - gt3 & gt3 RS. I challenge that assumption. There is capacity if they want to do it (even a third shift, if needed)...at Zuffenhausen & other locations*. And they could also cut back on base and lesser S 'spec' 991 production at Zuffenhausen... take a look how many unsold MY2014's are sitting at US dealers right now!
I can think of only two reasons why PAG has decided to eased out the 991 gt3 this early in time:
a) For reasons of liability, they want to limit the number of gt3 engines out in the field!
b) They have Cycle 6 emissions issues which have not been solved or negotiated to the satisfaction of governing authorities. Thus, they are going with a different engine in the near future...and need time to redesign the content of this particular gt3 model to match the new engine.
The only silver lining I see in this 'cloud' is that most of the key technology developed for the current 991 gt3 (pdk sport, Rear Axle Steering) will now be offered on the upcoming 991 gts model that will be announced shortly. That is my hope...not inside information! But it makes sense. The technology is already developed, needs to be paid for since it's expected gt3 sales are being eliminated, and it will create buzz & sales for this face lifted .2 991 platform.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Last night at Hood Canal, WA
*Zuffenhausen 981 Boxster production could be moved entirely to Osnabrück where both Cayman & Boxster are currently built. Panameras, currently welded and painted at a VW plant in Hanover, is scheduled to be all done at Leipzig by 2016. That could be delayed and...gt3 & RS's could be done at Leipzig along with the Macans in that dedicated Panamera space.
Back in March of 2013, when Detlev von Platen was interviewed at the NY Auto Show for the Wall Street Journal, he made a point of saying that for 2014, 10% of all 991's sold in the US would be gt3's (1.20 min in the attached video).
Porsche CEO on the New 911 GT3 - New York Auto Show - YouTube
Since they (PAG/PCNA) were in control of US gt3 dealer allocations, that exact number (10% of all) was planned into production. At no point in the marketing of this vehicle from Geneva 2013 to the date of the stop sale earlier this year, did PAG or PCNA EVER hinted that they would be winding down the gt3 early!
In terms of the VW Group (think larger volume) and expected increased profits for each model line, it makes no sense for Porsche to pull back from producing a healthy dose (at least 10% of total 991 production) of gt3's going forward. 'Mike in CA' has a theory which says they don't have capacity to do both - gt3 & gt3 RS. I challenge that assumption. There is capacity if they want to do it (even a third shift, if needed)...at Zuffenhausen & other locations*. And they could also cut back on base and lesser S 'spec' 991 production at Zuffenhausen... take a look how many unsold MY2014's are sitting at US dealers right now!
I can think of only two reasons why PAG has decided to eased out the 991 gt3 this early in time:
a) For reasons of liability, they want to limit the number of gt3 engines out in the field!
b) They have Cycle 6 emissions issues which have not been solved or negotiated to the satisfaction of governing authorities. Thus, they are going with a different engine in the near future...and need time to redesign the content of this particular gt3 model to match the new engine.
The only silver lining I see in this 'cloud' is that most of the key technology developed for the current 991 gt3 (pdk sport, Rear Axle Steering) will now be offered on the upcoming 991 gts model that will be announced shortly. That is my hope...not inside information! But it makes sense. The technology is already developed, needs to be paid for since it's expected gt3 sales are being eliminated, and it will create buzz & sales for this face lifted .2 991 platform.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Last night at Hood Canal, WA
*Zuffenhausen 981 Boxster production could be moved entirely to Osnabrück where both Cayman & Boxster are currently built. Panameras, currently welded and painted at a VW plant in Hanover, is scheduled to be all done at Leipzig by 2016. That could be delayed and...gt3 & RS's could be done at Leipzig along with the Macans in that dedicated Panamera space.
Here is my take on this subject. I think something is brewing at PAG right now. And we don't yet know the whole story. They seem to be phasing out the .1 991 gt3. And the .1 991 gt3 RS is supposed to be announced soon...but in very limited quantities. I have a theory on all of this. I goes as follows. For reasons we don't yet quite know (could be related to the gt3 engine), PAG will transfer some of the technology developed for the 991 gt3 into a more mainstream 911 model! That model will be the new 991 'gts'. It will have 'rear axle steering'. That is key! It will have a stronger engine than the x51 option. In effect, it will be a sort-of-sequal to the base 991 gt3 ...but in a more mainstream product call the '991 gts' and with a more reliable motor! This will be an important product for PAG and will raise the bar for the standard 991 product line. It makes no sense for them to do this special 'gts' model on the pre-face lift .1 MY2015 model with the limited time remaining between November and June of next year. This would only make sense as a .2 991 post-face lift model, coming out early in calendar year 2015 as a MY2016. That is what my crystal ball says. And I was raised by Romani Gypsies...so that is all I can say at the moment. But I have been wrong before. My wife reminds me of that everyday. And I could be wrong again. So stay tune...and see who wins in the Scottish vote!
I hope this theory is incorrect. If true, not only is our "special" car not so special but, it is and will be inferior relative to the 911 GTS engine and subject to replacement by a more affordable GTS platform that makes the GT3 obsolete within a matter of months. I should cancel my order immediately if this theory is correct.
Porsche would have a lot of ticked off 2014 owners and a few more 2015 owners to boot if they proceeded with that course of action. Moreover, the new technology put in the GT3 likely has a fixed cost. Unless they start the GTS at $131k, will Porsche be able to make the GTS with all of the GT3's tech for any less and still make good profit?
I can't imagine that Porsche would render the distinction between a GT3 and a 911 so immaterial that buying a GT3 becomes pointless. I'll be at the LA auto show this year and I will laugh my *** off if the GT3 and GTS are shown in the same Porsche room and the specs on GTS is superior to the GT3. And, right after that, I'll be on the phone with my dealership about my deposit and so will every other 2015 buyer.
09-15-2014, 07:39 AM
#21
Drifting
Thread Starter
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/8339...l#post11647359
I hope this theory is incorrect. If true, not only is our "special" car not so special but, it is and will be inferior relative to the 911 GTS engine and subject to replacement by a more affordable GTS platform that makes the GT3 obsolete within a matter of months. I should cancel my order immediately if this theory is correct.
Porsche would have a lot of ticked off 2014 owners and a few more 2015 owners to boot if they proceeded with that course of action. Moreover, the new technology put in the GT3 likely has a fixed cost. Unless they start the GTS at $131k, will Porsche be able to make the GTS with all of the GT3's tech for any less and still make good profit?
I can't imagine that Porsche would render the distinction between a GT3 and a 911 so immaterial that buying a GT3 becomes pointless. I'll be at the LA auto show this year and I will laugh my *** off if the GT3 and GTS are shown in the same Porsche room and the specs on GTS is superior to the GT3. And, right after that, I'll be on the phone with my dealership about my deposit and so will every other 2015 buyer.
I hope this theory is incorrect. If true, not only is our "special" car not so special but, it is and will be inferior relative to the 911 GTS engine and subject to replacement by a more affordable GTS platform that makes the GT3 obsolete within a matter of months. I should cancel my order immediately if this theory is correct.
Porsche would have a lot of ticked off 2014 owners and a few more 2015 owners to boot if they proceeded with that course of action. Moreover, the new technology put in the GT3 likely has a fixed cost. Unless they start the GTS at $131k, will Porsche be able to make the GTS with all of the GT3's tech for any less and still make good profit?
I can't imagine that Porsche would render the distinction between a GT3 and a 911 so immaterial that buying a GT3 becomes pointless. I'll be at the LA auto show this year and I will laugh my *** off if the GT3 and GTS are shown in the same Porsche room and the specs on GTS is superior to the GT3. And, right after that, I'll be on the phone with my dealership about my deposit and so will every other 2015 buyer.
A GTS will never a GT3, even if it comes close to power output and has some GT3 tech.
09-15-2014, 01:15 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Congrats on getting your build. I just got mine too and couldn't be happier.
09-15-2014, 02:29 PM
#23
Drifting
Thread Starter
I agree, the GTS will not be a GT3. While, I'm 90% sure that 911s will get some of the GT3 tech, it will not be in a way where Porsche would lose it's GT3 history or client base. For example, steering programming and perhaps rear wheel steering maybe added to 911 options or the GTS, but short shift transmission and 9k RPM 475 hp engine would probably be excluded.
Congrats on getting your build. I just got mine too and couldn't be happier.
Congrats on getting your build. I just got mine too and couldn't be happier.
