On track experiences and video's 991 GT3 only.
That's clean driving, nice!
11-01-2016, 06:37 PM
#934
Thanks
I think the trofeos are a little faster than the mpsc2 in the right conditions but their range of ideal use is less wide.
I don t have real direct comparaison data but I used both tyres in different cars and tracks.
I feel the trofeo R need one session to bed in a little or get used to them when new, they need more camber, they need the right pressure, and probaly are not really better than the mpsc2 if the weather is cold, and are worst in the wet, more expensive and less confidence inspiring at the limit in some conditions.
But when everything is set up for them and they are in the right temperature range and you get used to the slightly different behaviour in the ideal lap they are a little faster.
I would say that the best all around tyre is the mpsc2 but if you want to get a little more grip and you want to make at least one better lap the trofeo r is better.
For what it is it does also last a little I went by road to nurburgring zandvoort and spa and did before that one session at the mugello circuit and a trackday in a smaller circuit in italy and today I finished them on another small circuit for a local time attack event.
To really compare them they should be fitted new one after the other same day and same car.
I think the trofeos are a little faster than the mpsc2 in the right conditions but their range of ideal use is less wide.
I don t have real direct comparaison data but I used both tyres in different cars and tracks.
I feel the trofeo R need one session to bed in a little or get used to them when new, they need more camber, they need the right pressure, and probaly are not really better than the mpsc2 if the weather is cold, and are worst in the wet, more expensive and less confidence inspiring at the limit in some conditions.
But when everything is set up for them and they are in the right temperature range and you get used to the slightly different behaviour in the ideal lap they are a little faster.
I would say that the best all around tyre is the mpsc2 but if you want to get a little more grip and you want to make at least one better lap the trofeo r is better.
For what it is it does also last a little I went by road to nurburgring zandvoort and spa and did before that one session at the mugello circuit and a trackday in a smaller circuit in italy and today I finished them on another small circuit for a local time attack event.
To really compare them they should be fitted new one after the other same day and same car.
11-01-2016, 07:07 PM
#936
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Maxi_z
Thanks
I think the trofeos are a little faster than the mpsc2 in the right conditions but their range of ideal use is less wide.
I don t have real direct comparaison data but I used both tyres in different cars and tracks.
I feel the trofeo R need one session to bed in a little or get used to them when new, they need more camber, they need the right pressure, and probaly are not really better than the mpsc2 if the weather is cold, and are worst in the wet, more expensive and less confidence inspiring at the limit in some conditions.
But when everything is set up for them and they are in the right temperature range and you get used to the slightly different behaviour in the ideal lap they are a little faster.
I would say that the best all around tyre is the mpsc2 but if you want to get a little more grip and you want to make at least one better lap the trofeo r is better.
For what it is it does also last a little I went by road to nurburgring zandvoort and spa and did before that one session at the mugello circuit and a trackday in a smaller circuit in italy and today I finished them on another small circuit for a local time attack event.
To really compare them they should be fitted new one after the other same day and same car.
I think the trofeos are a little faster than the mpsc2 in the right conditions but their range of ideal use is less wide.
I don t have real direct comparaison data but I used both tyres in different cars and tracks.
I feel the trofeo R need one session to bed in a little or get used to them when new, they need more camber, they need the right pressure, and probaly are not really better than the mpsc2 if the weather is cold, and are worst in the wet, more expensive and less confidence inspiring at the limit in some conditions.
But when everything is set up for them and they are in the right temperature range and you get used to the slightly different behaviour in the ideal lap they are a little faster.
I would say that the best all around tyre is the mpsc2 but if you want to get a little more grip and you want to make at least one better lap the trofeo r is better.
For what it is it does also last a little I went by road to nurburgring zandvoort and spa and did before that one session at the mugello circuit and a trackday in a smaller circuit in italy and today I finished them on another small circuit for a local time attack event.
To really compare them they should be fitted new one after the other same day and same car.
11-01-2016, 09:45 PM
#937
Rennlist Member
Great feedback Maxi_Z. This conforms well with what we have discussed previously. For a 991 GT3 the extra life at the front is desirable, but for an RS it does not address the accelerated rear wear. Currently on my GT3 the front wear around 35% quicker than the rear. That all being said the tyres have probably heat cycled out within 8 cycles of each other (i.e. fronts first, then rears). The Trofeo advantage may be that they dont induce the understeer as quickly in the GT3 as they wear out as evenly as they cycle. The singular key GT3 "weakness" compared to the RS is front tyre contact pacth (down 20%) followed by aero and then my rear contact patch (IMO). So the Trofeo may help reduce the push understeer as the tyres wear but thats about it.
If they really want to up the ante with the new 991.2 GT3 they will fit it with 265 front and 325 rear tyres (i.e. make the rims wider). These should fit with a slightly altered front guard liner behind the new bumper. With the extra front lip downforce and the slightly higher rear wing we have seen and combined with the extra torque of the 4.0L RS engine and some slight tweaks to RWS, suspension geometry and EPS calibration they will then have a car thats comparable in outright lap times to the outgoing 991.1 GT3RS....
If they really want to up the ante with the new 991.2 GT3 they will fit it with 265 front and 325 rear tyres (i.e. make the rims wider). These should fit with a slightly altered front guard liner behind the new bumper. With the extra front lip downforce and the slightly higher rear wing we have seen and combined with the extra torque of the 4.0L RS engine and some slight tweaks to RWS, suspension geometry and EPS calibration they will then have a car thats comparable in outright lap times to the outgoing 991.1 GT3RS....
11-02-2016, 02:45 AM
#939
Great lap of Spa. Fantastic driving and that engine does sound awesome at the top end.
Interesting to read about the tyres. I used to have a lot of work done by Manthey on my 996rs and always keep an eye on their products. Seems they do little for the 991 (like engine and suspension). Do you know the reason for this?
Interesting to read about the tyres. I used to have a lot of work done by Manthey on my 996rs and always keep an eye on their products. Seems they do little for the 991 (like engine and suspension). Do you know the reason for this?
11-02-2016, 11:52 AM
#940
I think that the 991 is a modern car and it s very well balanced and it s more difficult to imporove it without completely change it s dual purpose.
There is off course already some quality parts from different tuners for suspensions etc but even if I don t question the quality of their parts I don t know if they will make a real difference in lap times etc and many of those tuners do not directly reply or give information about the real difference their upgraded suspension parts or smaller wheel setup make on track.
We all know that they look good fit well and that a good racer will make a great lap time with them but is that because of the good racer driving because good geometry or because of their parts?
Where are their customer reviews or comments?
At the level of performance the 991 gt3 and rs are on the track I think that any expensive parts should improve lap times to make a lot of owners buy them.
That is what dundon motorsport probably understand and try to show with their exhaust manifolds.
But another problem with their setup for track driving is that in europe there are tracks with noise limits.
Manthey is doing some work on the 991 but probably only for racing parts that found their limit on the track.
I think they work together with K&W suspension and offer a clubsport suspension kit, they supply pagid and endless brake pads, they have beautiful and expensive magnesium wheels, and offer a full cage for the front of the 991 that is different than the porsche motorsport one and fit with the roof panels.
But true that they did not speak about any exhaust or tune probably because most of their customers drive on the ring where you usually are not at the limit of the car grip and braking and can be faster just because of driving compared to other tracks.
About the tyres what would be good for the gt3 is some road legal tyre as the trofeo R but that get almost slick type rubber.
At the end the trofeo R is very good but not extreme enough compared to the very good mpsc2 so I would rather get the michelin all around or change for a really faster tyre for track even if it would last half the time of the trofeo r.
I know in us you get hoosiers but they are not road legal in europe.
There is off course already some quality parts from different tuners for suspensions etc but even if I don t question the quality of their parts I don t know if they will make a real difference in lap times etc and many of those tuners do not directly reply or give information about the real difference their upgraded suspension parts or smaller wheel setup make on track.
We all know that they look good fit well and that a good racer will make a great lap time with them but is that because of the good racer driving because good geometry or because of their parts?
Where are their customer reviews or comments?
At the level of performance the 991 gt3 and rs are on the track I think that any expensive parts should improve lap times to make a lot of owners buy them.
That is what dundon motorsport probably understand and try to show with their exhaust manifolds.
But another problem with their setup for track driving is that in europe there are tracks with noise limits.
Manthey is doing some work on the 991 but probably only for racing parts that found their limit on the track.
I think they work together with K&W suspension and offer a clubsport suspension kit, they supply pagid and endless brake pads, they have beautiful and expensive magnesium wheels, and offer a full cage for the front of the 991 that is different than the porsche motorsport one and fit with the roof panels.
But true that they did not speak about any exhaust or tune probably because most of their customers drive on the ring where you usually are not at the limit of the car grip and braking and can be faster just because of driving compared to other tracks.
About the tyres what would be good for the gt3 is some road legal tyre as the trofeo R but that get almost slick type rubber.
At the end the trofeo R is very good but not extreme enough compared to the very good mpsc2 so I would rather get the michelin all around or change for a really faster tyre for track even if it would last half the time of the trofeo r.
I know in us you get hoosiers but they are not road legal in europe.
Last edited by Maxi_z; 11-02-2016 at 12:08 PM.
11-03-2016, 05:45 AM
#941
Rennlist Member
Maxi. You may find my post today interesting reading:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...ers-rs-23.html
I concur with you. I dont believe there is much you can do with the 991 GT3 to make it particularly quicker at the track without significantly changing its nature. It is better to learn how to take it closer to the limit. When you run out of talent you can buy a GT3RS. When you run out of talent in the RS Porsche will have a GT2RS for sale :-)
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...ers-rs-23.html
I concur with you. I dont believe there is much you can do with the 991 GT3 to make it particularly quicker at the track without significantly changing its nature. It is better to learn how to take it closer to the limit. When you run out of talent you can buy a GT3RS. When you run out of talent in the RS Porsche will have a GT2RS for sale :-)
11-03-2016, 06:26 AM
#942
The 991 has simply moved the game on. I hear a lot of guys coming out of 7.2RS saying they are underwhelming. But they are mostly driving around at the speeds they got accustomed to in the 997, which is very easy to match in the 991. But when you start playing around with the possibilities the 991 offers (higher grip, rws, PDK-s) it just opens up a new dimension. I have never come out of any road going 997 feeling blown away. Yet the RS always astonishes me. By the same token however, there has never been so much competition. You think you've been going fast in an RS and then you get into a 675LT and it makes the RS feel pedestrian.
11-03-2016, 07:30 AM
#943
Rennlist Member
That is an awesome lap time. Especially with the added weight of a passenger on board. The speed and confidence up Eau Rouge and thru Pouhon is mightily impressive. I am stuck at 2:49 and cannot see myself ever getting to 2:41. 8 seconds is a lifetime.
11-03-2016, 07:55 AM
#944
Rennlist Member
Small video of a very wet session at Spa a couple of weeks ago. It was tippy toe driving all day. Too much gas too soon on the Cup2s and it was Whoops. I thought my GoPro was on but found out the battery had died so I didn't get much footage.
This small video was shot by a friend. I was chasing another GT3 and a Lotus at the time. The 3 Minis out front were nose to tail all day and were having a ball. Gives you an idea how wet it was.
This small video was shot by a friend. I was chasing another GT3 and a Lotus at the time. The 3 Minis out front were nose to tail all day and were having a ball. Gives you an idea how wet it was.
11-03-2016, 08:15 AM
#945
My best lap at spa with trofeo r tyres and manthey racing geometry but cold weather
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qGJkFKWR8Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qGJkFKWR8Y