WWYD: accept the engine swapped GT3 or pass?
03-11-2014, 08:59 AM
#46
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I used to own a small used Porsche/sports car dealership - we dealt with older cars - 90's and earlier. We all knew what years there were issues, what years were better. Even the 'quiet' issues, and priced things accordingly. and remember, these were in an era of no real internet, no twitter, no facebook, no Rennlist, no 24/7 discussion....and we STILL all knew what was good, what was bad.
Perception is reality. You can tell me all you want that an engine replaced by a dealer on a BRAND NEW CAR is no big deal, but I can tell you that there is not a single person I know that has said they would buy one. Not one...
If you are given the option of getting your money back, I would take it. There will be a 2015 model where, presumably, the bugs have been worked out. You've waited this long...
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03-11-2014, 09:03 AM
#47
Drifting
My comments weren't directed at you but rather at all of those fussing about whether Horst knows how to use a wrench and screwdriver at the local dealership whilst overlooking longer term implications... If I'd meant you, I'd quote you 
Apologies for having bored you with my further regurgitation then. Maybe we'll wait for Porsche, sure they'll be happy to share with us exactly how they f%#ked up... Porsche have said all they were going to say... Nothing.
Apologies for having bored you with my further regurgitation then. Maybe we'll wait for Porsche, sure they'll be happy to share with us exactly how they f%#ked up... Porsche have said all they were going to say... Nothing.
...and I'm sure the owners here will be pleased to read your continued derogatory comments. Care to share any further wisdom with us???
03-11-2014, 09:25 AM
#48
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^^Guys, seriously?
Here are the facts:
1) There have been a couple fires/issues with the new GT3
2) Porsche decided (on their own or by some other outside force, but it doesn't matter) to stop sale the cars and 'recall' everyone out there
THATS IT!!
At this point, there is NOTHING NEW OR CONCRETE that is OFFICIAL from Porsche - which is who can provide the ONLY communication that matters. Nobody knows what's wrong, what the fix is, or what the options are for the owners/buyers.
Until Porsche puts out some official communication, EVERYTHING else is purely speculative.
We can only HOPE Porsche does all the right things. But in the end, they are a company, not an emotional owner. They will look at the numbers and make a decision based on that. Some of you may like the decision, some not. (heck, I have a 2004 GT3 that has a KNOWN problem of coolant fittings that Porsche continues to say doesn't exist).
Until the official word comes, NOTHING on this board or what comes from a dealer mean anything.
Here are the facts:
1) There have been a couple fires/issues with the new GT3
2) Porsche decided (on their own or by some other outside force, but it doesn't matter) to stop sale the cars and 'recall' everyone out there
THATS IT!!
At this point, there is NOTHING NEW OR CONCRETE that is OFFICIAL from Porsche - which is who can provide the ONLY communication that matters. Nobody knows what's wrong, what the fix is, or what the options are for the owners/buyers.
Until Porsche puts out some official communication, EVERYTHING else is purely speculative.
We can only HOPE Porsche does all the right things. But in the end, they are a company, not an emotional owner. They will look at the numbers and make a decision based on that. Some of you may like the decision, some not. (heck, I have a 2004 GT3 that has a KNOWN problem of coolant fittings that Porsche continues to say doesn't exist).
Until the official word comes, NOTHING on this board or what comes from a dealer mean anything.
03-11-2014, 10:26 AM
#49
It escapes me how any intelligent person would fork over that much money for a potentially defective engine. If you have a GT3 I hope it is a smallish problem and it sorts itself out. If you can get your deposit back then why wouldn't you wait for a 2015? This is a no-brainer. I don't care how easy it is to swap an engine. For 150K I want factory perfection.
03-11-2014, 10:41 AM
#50
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03-11-2014, 10:55 AM
#51
Race Director
It escapes me how any intelligent person would fork over that much money for a potentially defective engine. If you have a GT3 I hope it is a smallish problem and it sorts itself out. If you can get your deposit back then why wouldn't you wait for a 2015? This is a no-brainer. I don't care how easy it is to swap an engine. For 150K I want factory perfection.
just think about all those idiots lining up at the Apple store for the lastest device.
03-11-2014, 11:27 AM
#52
There's a recall on the RWS, yes?
Piech can discuss both the connecting rods and RWS (and cam sensors, thermostats, ect) in the same speech.
03-11-2014, 12:14 PM
#53
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I feel for current owners as it's a crap situation. That said, a potential engine swap in and of itself would not be a deal breaker. The real unknown as others have alluded is resale value and that comes down to brand image.
It's pretty hard to argue at this stage that the GT3 brand hasn't been tarnished to some degree, but there is a way to address this.
Over a year ago I posted that Porsche's decision to use different engines in the street GT3 and the GT3 Cup was a major mistake. Even if nothing went wrong it diminished the brand IMO. And now stuff has gone wrong in a big way.
So the very simple solution is for Porsche to put their money where their mouth is by running the same basic drivetrain in the street GT3 and the GT3 Cup. This isn't a Mezger vs 9A1 argument. I don't care which engine it has, just prove that it can take the punishment. You say PDK works: prove it. RWS steering can stand up to track abuse: prove it.
If Ferrari can do it with street 458's and the 458 Challenge car, Porsche should be able to. It's what the GT3 was and what it should always be.
It's pretty hard to argue at this stage that the GT3 brand hasn't been tarnished to some degree, but there is a way to address this.
Over a year ago I posted that Porsche's decision to use different engines in the street GT3 and the GT3 Cup was a major mistake. Even if nothing went wrong it diminished the brand IMO. And now stuff has gone wrong in a big way.
So the very simple solution is for Porsche to put their money where their mouth is by running the same basic drivetrain in the street GT3 and the GT3 Cup. This isn't a Mezger vs 9A1 argument. I don't care which engine it has, just prove that it can take the punishment. You say PDK works: prove it. RWS steering can stand up to track abuse: prove it.
If Ferrari can do it with street 458's and the 458 Challenge car, Porsche should be able to. It's what the GT3 was and what it should always be.
03-11-2014, 01:39 PM
#54
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To me, a car with 6 year engine warranty and replaced engine is worth more than a car with 4 year warrantee and original engine. To the next buyer it may be worth less, but if I get 50%+ of that future loss as compensation today, I'll be coming up ahead.
So for me it's pure value accounting, without assigning any meaningful value to the latest-&-greatest factor.
03-11-2014, 01:55 PM
#55
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Will Piech be giving forth on the GT3 where the Rear Wheel Steering turned the back of the car into oncoming traffic while going straight on the highway in the rain at 80mph? As I recall from the pictures, the oncoming car sheared off the back 1/3 of the GT3 and the engine was found some hundreds of feet away.
There's a recall on the RWS, yes?
Piech can discuss both the connecting rods and RWS (and cam sensors, thermostats, ect) in the same speech.
There's a recall on the RWS, yes?
Piech can discuss both the connecting rods and RWS (and cam sensors, thermostats, ect) in the same speech.
03-11-2014, 02:01 PM
#56
Race Director
Will Piech be giving forth on the GT3 where the Rear Wheel Steering turned the back of the car into oncoming traffic while going straight on the highway in the rain at 80mph? As I recall from the pictures, the oncoming car sheared off the back 1/3 of the GT3 and the engine was found some hundreds of feet away.
There's a recall on the RWS, yes?
Piech can discuss both the connecting rods and RWS (and cam sensors, thermostats, ect) in the same speech.
There's a recall on the RWS, yes?
Piech can discuss both the connecting rods and RWS (and cam sensors, thermostats, ect) in the same speech.
03-11-2014, 02:03 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=naroescape;11202987]
Perception is reality. You can tell me all you want that an engine replaced by a dealer on a BRAND NEW CAR is no big deal, but I can tell you that there is not a single person I know that has said they would buy one. Not one...
QUOTE]
Please see my post #17, I stated so then I'll state so again.
I'd buy one with a replaced engine. But I would be selective. I'd want to be sure proper maintenance and service was well documented, don't care if it was dealer or tech or qualified DIY'er, but I'd do my research. If it came out acceptable to me, I'd buy.
Perception is reality. You can tell me all you want that an engine replaced by a dealer on a BRAND NEW CAR is no big deal, but I can tell you that there is not a single person I know that has said they would buy one. Not one...
QUOTE]
Please see my post #17, I stated so then I'll state so again.
I'd buy one with a replaced engine. But I would be selective. I'd want to be sure proper maintenance and service was well documented, don't care if it was dealer or tech or qualified DIY'er, but I'd do my research. If it came out acceptable to me, I'd buy.
03-11-2014, 02:05 PM
#58
Race Director
I feel for current owners as it's a crap situation. That said, a potential engine swap in and of itself would not be a deal breaker. The real unknown as others have alluded is resale value and that comes down to brand image.
It's pretty hard to argue at this stage that the GT3 brand hasn't been tarnished to some degree, but there is a way to address this.
Over a year ago I posted that Porsche's decision to use different engines in the street GT3 and the GT3 Cup was a major mistake. Even if nothing went wrong it diminished the brand IMO. And now stuff has gone wrong in a big way.
So the very simple solution is for Porsche to put their money where their mouth is by running the same basic drivetrain in the street GT3 and the GT3 Cup. This isn't a Mezger vs 9A1 argument. I don't care which engine it has, just prove that it can take the punishment. You say PDK works: prove it. RWS steering can stand up to track abuse: prove it.
If Ferrari can do it with street 458's and the 458 Challenge car, Porsche should be able to. It's what the GT3 was and what it should always be.
It's pretty hard to argue at this stage that the GT3 brand hasn't been tarnished to some degree, but there is a way to address this.
Over a year ago I posted that Porsche's decision to use different engines in the street GT3 and the GT3 Cup was a major mistake. Even if nothing went wrong it diminished the brand IMO. And now stuff has gone wrong in a big way.
So the very simple solution is for Porsche to put their money where their mouth is by running the same basic drivetrain in the street GT3 and the GT3 Cup. This isn't a Mezger vs 9A1 argument. I don't care which engine it has, just prove that it can take the punishment. You say PDK works: prove it. RWS steering can stand up to track abuse: prove it.
If Ferrari can do it with street 458's and the 458 Challenge car, Porsche should be able to. It's what the GT3 was and what it should always be.
03-11-2014, 02:34 PM
#60
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GT3 America, GT3 R, and GT3 RSR are a different story but the base engine could certainly be used in all these applications just like the Mezger is in the current cars.