Worth the wait?...Oh yeah!....Pics, comments, review
01-14-2014, 09:51 PM
#91
Race Director
Thread Starter
Review
Today was my first real drive in the GT3 under gorgeous California skies......about 150 mile over to and up the coast and then back roads to return home.....so I feel ready to pass along a few early impressions. Let me start by saying that I'm one of those who believe in a fairly extended break-in period so you're not going to get descriptions of full throttle runs to redline. This is also my first GT3 so obviously I'm in no position to make direct comparisons to the previous model. But I've owned a lot of different cars and several Porsches so I have some perspective; hopefully some of this will be of interest especially to others with first time Porsche or GT3 experience.
This car is quite unlike the last Carrera version I was familiar with; a 997.2 S with the GTS sport suspension and PSE. It's got a lopey idle, it chunks, it whines, and rattles a bit. My wife says it sounds like a race car. She's not been in many race cars but she's been in all the performance cars I've owned and she's right in the sense that it has much more character than your average sports cars. That's a good thing.
I have no intention of trying to reboot the PDK/MT discussion. Some of you can't abide that this car doesn't come with a manual, and I'm good with that. I will say however, that if your impressions of PDK are based on experience with a previous version in a Carrera, Panamera, or Boxster/Cayman, I'd like to disabuse you of the notion that you really know what PDK-S is like. You still might not like it even if you did know, but that's another matter. It starts with the feel of the paddles which is much firmer than the standard PDK I was familiar with in the 997. More importantly, where there was a brief but perceptible lag between a tug on the paddle and response of the transmission before, the response is immediate now. Shifts are executed very quickly regardless of throttle input, yet without jerkiness, and especially if a bit more throttle is applied, with a terrific whump-whump-whump from the engine/exhaust. Standard auto mode upshifts later than regular PDK auto and about the same as PDK Sport, and Sport auto mode hangs onto gears much longer but will upshift on it's own before redline, unlike regular PDK in Sport +. Also unlike regular PDK manual, the car won't begin downshifting as soon as speed drops. PDK-S won't quite let the engine lug, but you have to downshift yourself to keep a proper pace. Manual mode is the most satisfying way to drive, and except for when I was experimenting with the other modes, the only way I drove the car today. One thing that will require some adjustment on my part is the no-creep mode. Under most circumstances I really like it; the take up from a stop sounds just like a manual, with a bit of revving and then clutch engagement. It's when I'm trying to maneuver in a tight spot, especially backing up, that I miss having control of both the throttle and clutch or the brake with a typical auto creep. Once I gain confidence that the car isn't going to unexpectedly lurch on me with an immoveable object in the way, I think it will be fine.
On the subject of shifting; a quick trivia note. Who remembers the CASIS arrow? I had it on my '84 Carrera and the acronym stood for Computer Assisted Shift Information System . It was a yellow arrow right in the center of the tach that lit up when the "computer" decided that it would be economical to upshift. Some of us in the day put a small piece of black tape over the annoying little light. Well it's back, sort of, although much less intrusive this time. Just to the right of the digital speed display is a small white triangle that lights up in manual mode to advise an upshift. You might not even notice it if you weren't looking for it.
Electro-mechanical steering; a big bone of contention ahead of the GT3's introduction. My personal opinion is that if Porsche had not advertised that this car had it, 99% of all drivers would have thought only that Porsche had further refined and improved hydraulic steering. Let go of the wheel and it doesn't twitch like the unboosted steering in 3.2 Carrera, or even a 996, 987, or 997. But with your hands on the wheel you can most definitely feel everything you need to feel from the road. Effort is just what you would want, corning forces build up in a totally expected way, and the wheel telegraphs where the car is going precisely. Concerns about the steering have proven to be much ado about nothing, IMHO. As for RWS, I haven't pushed the car hard enough to tell how RWS will respond at the limit, but at normal road speeds it's totally transparent with no artificial feel from the chassis.
The ride is firm, again as it should be. As I mentioned earlier my 997.2 S had the 20mm lower GTS sport suspension with PASM. The GT3 in normal mode feels firmer to me than the Carrera did in sport mode. The GT3's sport mode is perfectly useable on smooth roads but when the going gets rougher you'll want to be in normal.
PCCB's are awesome. The initial bite and overall feel are great. I can't wait to give them more of a workout. After a trip like today's, my Carrera's wheels and bodywork would have been filthy with brake dust. I can detect some dust if I run my finger over the wheels, but it's nothing like before. I won't try and convince anyone that PCCB's are worth the cost, but they are really nice.
Seats. The adaptive sport seats are comfortable, widely adjustable, and provide good support. After a 3-4 hour drive in the sport buckets in my Carrera, my legs and hips would get pretty tight and climbing out of the seats was an adventure. Not so today. That's not to say that, even knowing what I know about the ***, I wouldn't have chosen the buckets if they had been available. They're a must if you want to use a harness, they look great, and they add a lot to the car. But I have to say that the decision wouldn't be the slam dunk I would have thought it to be before I tried the ***.
The nose lift is quick. The manual says it take 3 seconds to raise but I started counting one-thousand one at the entrance to my driveway and it was up just as I finished. As has been pointed out, it won't save you from every possible contact; today I had two light scrapes of the brake ducts on our famously poor Sonoma County roads. OTOH, I absolutely would not have been able to access locations near where I took the photos below without the lift. Not just scraping, I mean no go.
A couple of other minor things. Those who hate the wart can skip this part, but aside from it's improved looks it works differently than before. On the 997 you had a digital clock and a sweep second hand that moved only when you engaged the stopwatch. Now in addition to the digital display there is also a small analog clockface, and when the chrono is not in stopwatch mode, the sweep second hand ticks off the seconds for that clock. A few minutes after the ignition is turned off and the door closed the analog clock and second hand reset themselves to 12:00 and turn off to save power. Open the door, and the hands spin around the dial to the correct time and start up again. Kind of cool.
The G meter is interesting. The dot in the center tracks braking/acceleration/cornering force, You can recall the maximum readings achieved for each vector since the last reset. Not sure how useful it is, but kind of neat.
More negatives? It's just really hard to think of any important ones right now. The stereo is "just ok"? I wish the car remembered exhaust button settings and such when the ignition was turned off? Can't see much of the engine? Better gas mileage? Uhhh.....
What's easy to say is that the car is drop dead gorgeous, in any color. I stopped several times today, and each time I had people come up and ask about the car, sometimes take pictures, and just generally admire it. Very gratifying. I'm going to try and put some break-in miles on it as quickly as I can so that I can start to explore more of it's potential. I assure you, it won't be a chore! One last thing. If you have been concerned that this car is not going to be fun to drive at "normal" speeds, please stop worrying. I had a blast today.
This car is quite unlike the last Carrera version I was familiar with; a 997.2 S with the GTS sport suspension and PSE. It's got a lopey idle, it chunks, it whines, and rattles a bit. My wife says it sounds like a race car. She's not been in many race cars but she's been in all the performance cars I've owned and she's right in the sense that it has much more character than your average sports cars. That's a good thing.
I have no intention of trying to reboot the PDK/MT discussion. Some of you can't abide that this car doesn't come with a manual, and I'm good with that. I will say however, that if your impressions of PDK are based on experience with a previous version in a Carrera, Panamera, or Boxster/Cayman, I'd like to disabuse you of the notion that you really know what PDK-S is like. You still might not like it even if you did know, but that's another matter. It starts with the feel of the paddles which is much firmer than the standard PDK I was familiar with in the 997. More importantly, where there was a brief but perceptible lag between a tug on the paddle and response of the transmission before, the response is immediate now. Shifts are executed very quickly regardless of throttle input, yet without jerkiness, and especially if a bit more throttle is applied, with a terrific whump-whump-whump from the engine/exhaust. Standard auto mode upshifts later than regular PDK auto and about the same as PDK Sport, and Sport auto mode hangs onto gears much longer but will upshift on it's own before redline, unlike regular PDK in Sport +. Also unlike regular PDK manual, the car won't begin downshifting as soon as speed drops. PDK-S won't quite let the engine lug, but you have to downshift yourself to keep a proper pace. Manual mode is the most satisfying way to drive, and except for when I was experimenting with the other modes, the only way I drove the car today. One thing that will require some adjustment on my part is the no-creep mode. Under most circumstances I really like it; the take up from a stop sounds just like a manual, with a bit of revving and then clutch engagement. It's when I'm trying to maneuver in a tight spot, especially backing up, that I miss having control of both the throttle and clutch or the brake with a typical auto creep. Once I gain confidence that the car isn't going to unexpectedly lurch on me with an immoveable object in the way, I think it will be fine.
On the subject of shifting; a quick trivia note. Who remembers the CASIS arrow? I had it on my '84 Carrera and the acronym stood for Computer Assisted Shift Information System . It was a yellow arrow right in the center of the tach that lit up when the "computer" decided that it would be economical to upshift. Some of us in the day put a small piece of black tape over the annoying little light. Well it's back, sort of, although much less intrusive this time. Just to the right of the digital speed display is a small white triangle that lights up in manual mode to advise an upshift. You might not even notice it if you weren't looking for it.
Electro-mechanical steering; a big bone of contention ahead of the GT3's introduction. My personal opinion is that if Porsche had not advertised that this car had it, 99% of all drivers would have thought only that Porsche had further refined and improved hydraulic steering. Let go of the wheel and it doesn't twitch like the unboosted steering in 3.2 Carrera, or even a 996, 987, or 997. But with your hands on the wheel you can most definitely feel everything you need to feel from the road. Effort is just what you would want, corning forces build up in a totally expected way, and the wheel telegraphs where the car is going precisely. Concerns about the steering have proven to be much ado about nothing, IMHO. As for RWS, I haven't pushed the car hard enough to tell how RWS will respond at the limit, but at normal road speeds it's totally transparent with no artificial feel from the chassis.
The ride is firm, again as it should be. As I mentioned earlier my 997.2 S had the 20mm lower GTS sport suspension with PASM. The GT3 in normal mode feels firmer to me than the Carrera did in sport mode. The GT3's sport mode is perfectly useable on smooth roads but when the going gets rougher you'll want to be in normal.
PCCB's are awesome. The initial bite and overall feel are great. I can't wait to give them more of a workout. After a trip like today's, my Carrera's wheels and bodywork would have been filthy with brake dust. I can detect some dust if I run my finger over the wheels, but it's nothing like before. I won't try and convince anyone that PCCB's are worth the cost, but they are really nice.
Seats. The adaptive sport seats are comfortable, widely adjustable, and provide good support. After a 3-4 hour drive in the sport buckets in my Carrera, my legs and hips would get pretty tight and climbing out of the seats was an adventure. Not so today. That's not to say that, even knowing what I know about the ***, I wouldn't have chosen the buckets if they had been available. They're a must if you want to use a harness, they look great, and they add a lot to the car. But I have to say that the decision wouldn't be the slam dunk I would have thought it to be before I tried the ***.
The nose lift is quick. The manual says it take 3 seconds to raise but I started counting one-thousand one at the entrance to my driveway and it was up just as I finished. As has been pointed out, it won't save you from every possible contact; today I had two light scrapes of the brake ducts on our famously poor Sonoma County roads. OTOH, I absolutely would not have been able to access locations near where I took the photos below without the lift. Not just scraping, I mean no go.
A couple of other minor things. Those who hate the wart can skip this part, but aside from it's improved looks it works differently than before. On the 997 you had a digital clock and a sweep second hand that moved only when you engaged the stopwatch. Now in addition to the digital display there is also a small analog clockface, and when the chrono is not in stopwatch mode, the sweep second hand ticks off the seconds for that clock. A few minutes after the ignition is turned off and the door closed the analog clock and second hand reset themselves to 12:00 and turn off to save power. Open the door, and the hands spin around the dial to the correct time and start up again. Kind of cool.
The G meter is interesting. The dot in the center tracks braking/acceleration/cornering force, You can recall the maximum readings achieved for each vector since the last reset. Not sure how useful it is, but kind of neat.
More negatives? It's just really hard to think of any important ones right now. The stereo is "just ok"? I wish the car remembered exhaust button settings and such when the ignition was turned off? Can't see much of the engine? Better gas mileage? Uhhh.....
What's easy to say is that the car is drop dead gorgeous, in any color. I stopped several times today, and each time I had people come up and ask about the car, sometimes take pictures, and just generally admire it. Very gratifying. I'm going to try and put some break-in miles on it as quickly as I can so that I can start to explore more of it's potential. I assure you, it won't be a chore! One last thing. If you have been concerned that this car is not going to be fun to drive at "normal" speeds, please stop worrying. I had a blast today.
Last edited by Mike in CA; 01-16-2014 at 12:10 AM.
01-14-2014, 10:23 PM
#94
Drifting
Thanks for the review Mike. I cant wait for mine 
Looks like you guys had a great day. Temp was record high in the area so it probably just added more to the fun factor. Keep adding those miles now and then the redline fun begins.
Looks like you guys had a great day. Temp was record high in the area so it probably just added more to the fun factor. Keep adding those miles now and then the redline fun begins.
01-14-2014, 10:37 PM
#96
Nordschleife Master
Mike,thanks for the review.
I'm glad you're enjoying it and taking us along the ride.
Good info regarding the light that comes on when it's time to shift,didn't know that,I actually believe you're the first one mentioning it.
Sport Chrono's " wart " never bothered me and it seems it has improved features.
Your reports on the steering feel seem to be similar to what we've been hearing from different journos.
PDK...well that's where it gets interesting... If you were ok with the one you had in your C2S,I can understand why the PDK-S seems such an upgrade. And I'm sure it's an upgrade,no question about it. I might not be able to drive a car with PDK-S soon,so I'll refrain myself from commenting too much about it,yet I will always be interested why does Porsche believe it is an integrated system meant to work together with the new engine... Do you feel that? In your opinion,do you think a manual wouldn't have worked just as well with this engine and an E-diff?
Another question : if driving the car in Normal mode and PDK-S in Auto,does it want to be in highest gear as soon as possible,like in 6th at 35MPH?
Thanks again for your comments and I'll be watching closely to your future reviews.
Gorgeous pics BTW! What camera are you using,if you don't mind me asking?
I'm glad you're enjoying it and taking us along the ride.
Good info regarding the light that comes on when it's time to shift,didn't know that,I actually believe you're the first one mentioning it.
Sport Chrono's " wart " never bothered me and it seems it has improved features.
Your reports on the steering feel seem to be similar to what we've been hearing from different journos.
PDK...well that's where it gets interesting... If you were ok with the one you had in your C2S,I can understand why the PDK-S seems such an upgrade. And I'm sure it's an upgrade,no question about it. I might not be able to drive a car with PDK-S soon,so I'll refrain myself from commenting too much about it,yet I will always be interested why does Porsche believe it is an integrated system meant to work together with the new engine... Do you feel that? In your opinion,do you think a manual wouldn't have worked just as well with this engine and an E-diff?
Another question : if driving the car in Normal mode and PDK-S in Auto,does it want to be in highest gear as soon as possible,like in 6th at 35MPH?
Thanks again for your comments and I'll be watching closely to your future reviews.
Gorgeous pics BTW! What camera are you using,if you don't mind me asking?
01-14-2014, 10:59 PM
#97
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
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Mike, how does your subjective impression of the car compare with what you expected?
01-14-2014, 11:00 PM
#98
Rennlist Member
Great pics Mike! Id imagine like me you are happy with those grey headlight standard PDLS option. They work well in different lights and also compliment the wheels....
01-15-2014, 12:04 AM
#101
Rennlist Member
Mike: Congrats. Car is beautiful.
01-15-2014, 12:11 AM
#102
Race Director
Thread Starter
PDK...well that's where it gets interesting... If you were ok with the one you had in your C2S,I can understand why the PDK-S seems such an upgrade. And I'm sure it's an upgrade,no question about it. I might not be able to drive a car with PDK-S soon,so I'll refrain myself from commenting too much about it,yet I will always be interested why does Porsche believe it is an integrated system meant to work together with the new engine... Do you feel that? In your opinion,do you think a manual wouldn't have worked just as well with this engine and an E-diff?
Another question : if driving the car in Normal mode and PDK-S in Auto,does it want to be in highest gear as soon as possible,like in 6th at 35MPH?
Thanks again for your comments and I'll be watching closely to your future reviews.
Gorgeous pics BTW! What camera are you using,if you don't mind me asking?
Another question : if driving the car in Normal mode and PDK-S in Auto,does it want to be in highest gear as soon as possible,like in 6th at 35MPH?
Thanks again for your comments and I'll be watching closely to your future reviews.
Gorgeous pics BTW! What camera are you using,if you don't mind me asking?
Hard for me to speculate what the car would be like with a manual, especially since in my 24 hours of ownership I've barely scratched it's surface. Macca or SamFromTx could probably answer that more intelligently. But the fast revving new engine and updated quick shifting gearbox seem like a great match. The GT3 is a thoroughly modern car, and almost all thoroughly modern performance cars have gone or are headed towards DCT's. Not a value judgment, just a reality from which people can draw their own conclusions.
PDK-S in the normal (sport) mode doesn't try to shift into 6th at 35mph like PDK in normal mode does. I was doing 55 today and it was still in 6th gear. It also depends on how aggressive you've been driving and how much throttle you are giving it since Auto mode adapts to the driver's behavior.
Thanks for the kind words on the pics. I've been leaving my Canon DSLR and lenses at home recently because I've been wanting to try out the new Sony RX100M2 that I got for Christmas. It's classified as a "pocket camera" but it's got a nice Carl Zeiss 1.8 lens and a ton of cool creative features. It's so easy to slip into my pocket or the glovebox and not have to worry about the big Canon rolling around, yet I've been very happy with the photos it takes.
Last edited by Mike in CA; 01-15-2014 at 12:27 AM.
01-15-2014, 12:24 AM
#104
Race Director
Thread Starter
), they look good, and work great. People already react to the Bi-Xenons at night, even though they have a really sharp cut-off; hard to imagine their response to even brighter lighting.Nick, I don't....
01-15-2014, 12:39 AM
#105
Rennlist Member
Today was my first real drive in the GT3 under gorgeous California skies......about 150 mile over to and up the coast and then back roads to return home.....so I feel ready to pass along a few early impressions. Let me start by saying that I'm one of those who believe in a fairly extended break-in period so you're not going to get descriptions of full throttle runs to redline. This is also my first GT3 so obviously I'm in no position to make direct comparisons to the previous model. But I've owned a lot of different cars and several Porsches so I have some perspective; hopefully some of this will be of interest especially to others with first time Porsche or GT3 experience.
What's easy to say is that the car is drop dead gorgeous, in any color. I stopped several times today, and each time I had people come up and ask about the car, sometimes take pictures, and just generally admire it. Very gratifying. I'm going to try and put some break-in miles on it as quickly as I can so that I can start to explore more of it's potential. I assure you, it won't be a chore! One last thing. If you have been concerned that this car is not going to be fun to drive at "normal" speeds, please stop worrying. I had a blast today.
What's easy to say is that the car is drop dead gorgeous, in any color. I stopped several times today, and each time I had people come up and ask about the car, sometimes take pictures, and just generally admire it. Very gratifying. I'm going to try and put some break-in miles on it as quickly as I can so that I can start to explore more of it's potential. I assure you, it won't be a chore! One last thing. If you have been concerned that this car is not going to be fun to drive at "normal" speeds, please stop worrying. I had a blast today.
Jeff