New C7 Z06
01-08-2014, 12:59 PM
#76
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Okay, so what you're really try to say is having a stock ZR1 with seats, harnesses, brake fluid, bushings, and slicks that can run faster than almost any other street car on the planet is not fair? Okay, duly noted. Sorry, I didn't know we all needed to have the same size stick to discuss lap times.
What mods are on your RWD converted, gutted, hollow doors, race aero 996 Turbo again? List them out and I'll tell you which mods aren't fair.
What mods are on your RWD converted, gutted, hollow doors, race aero 996 Turbo again? List them out and I'll tell you which mods aren't fair.
No, I'm trying to say a car with 640 hp and slicks SHOULD win every DE. Doesn't matter where the HP came from, factory or aftermarket. For the road course, factory hp is ideal anyways.
I would have gladly run you when my car was awd and 3700 lbs (with driver) and only had a tune, exhaust, adjustable rear sway and $900 coilovers. But you'd still have an excuse because it wasn't "stock" like your ZR1 with mods and slicks.
It's pretty easy to win if you buy the car that has all of the benefits, and have your own rulebook. Just sayin'.
01-08-2014, 01:23 PM
#77
Rennlist Member
I agree. But I do not hear things like that even from most intermediates in M3s or Caymans, for example. Some cars seem to be just easier to get to the limit and keep there comfortably - be it communication, clarity of controls, etc. In my mind, this is an advantage to a typical DE driver.
01-08-2014, 05:50 PM
#79
Race Car
01-09-2014, 12:17 PM
#80
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No, I'm trying to say a car with 640 hp and slicks SHOULD win every DE. Doesn't matter where the HP came from, factory or aftermarket. For the road course, factory hp is ideal anyways.
I would have gladly run you when my car was awd and 3700 lbs (with driver) and only had a tune, exhaust, adjustable rear sway and $900 coilovers. But you'd still have an excuse because it wasn't "stock" like your ZR1 with mods and slicks.
It's pretty easy to win if you buy the car that has all of the benefits, and have your own rulebook. Just sayin'.
I would have gladly run you when my car was awd and 3700 lbs (with driver) and only had a tune, exhaust, adjustable rear sway and $900 coilovers. But you'd still have an excuse because it wasn't "stock" like your ZR1 with mods and slicks.
It's pretty easy to win if you buy the car that has all of the benefits, and have your own rulebook. Just sayin'.
So, since 99% of non-cup P-cars are slower on the track, somehow I'm cheating because I have a factory Vette with a few mods that happens to be pretty quick? Honestly, it sounds like completely lame excuses. I guess Porsche is selling on the "quality, butter smooth leather, advanced German engineering, though slower, prestige" factor nowadays instead of actually being fast.
Faster is faster, period. You can make all the lame excuses you want, but 99% of P-cars are slower than well-driven Vettes.
01-09-2014, 12:24 PM
#81
Rennlist Member
My post above was to contradict Wanna's pure speed whiny excuses, I am WELL aware of the intangible factors including substance, overall build quality, driving feel, flat six sound, looks (my wife loves the look of the 911 and doesn't like the Vette), etc. that makes a 911, a 911. I get it.
That is why, again, I fully intend to look at the 991 GT3 RS offerings when I decide on my next track/weekend warrior vehicle to replace my ZR. It will likely be down to the 991 GT3 RS and C7 ZR1. I haven't gotten paid yet for my track driving, so maybe there is something more than outright speed to the whole driving experience?
It's two different arguments. Wanna is whining I'm cheating because I have a fast almost stock Vette on slicks and it's not fair to compare against slower, more expensive Porsche offerings. The other argument relates to is the Porsche a more enjoyable and nicer overall car to drive even if it's slower? It is likely that it is!! Again, two completely different arguments.
That is why, again, I fully intend to look at the 991 GT3 RS offerings when I decide on my next track/weekend warrior vehicle to replace my ZR. It will likely be down to the 991 GT3 RS and C7 ZR1. I haven't gotten paid yet for my track driving, so maybe there is something more than outright speed to the whole driving experience?
It's two different arguments. Wanna is whining I'm cheating because I have a fast almost stock Vette on slicks and it's not fair to compare against slower, more expensive Porsche offerings. The other argument relates to is the Porsche a more enjoyable and nicer overall car to drive even if it's slower? It is likely that it is!! Again, two completely different arguments.
01-09-2014, 01:15 PM
#83
You got to ask yourself what you want to gain or prove by being the Vette protagonist and Porsche antagonist on a Porsche board. By and large, everyone here understands what a Corvette is capable of and applauds it.
01-09-2014, 01:27 PM
#84
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Keep both.
Based on past vettes, it is highly unlikely that the new vette even remotely matches the driving experience of the GT3. I'm not talking about performance, I'm talking about quality, immediacy, intensity; more a subjective driver/car connection. From a performance standpoint, vettes have always been a far better value proposition.
Based on past vettes, it is highly unlikely that the new vette even remotely matches the driving experience of the GT3. I'm not talking about performance, I'm talking about quality, immediacy, intensity; more a subjective driver/car connection. From a performance standpoint, vettes have always been a far better value proposition.
01-09-2014, 01:29 PM
#85
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Keep both.
Based on past vettes, it is highly unlikely that the new vette even remotely matches the driving experience of the GT3. I'm not talking about performance, I'm talking about quality, immediacy, intensity; more a subjective driver/car connection. From a performance standpoint, vettes have always been a far better value proposition.
Based on past vettes, it is highly unlikely that the new vette even remotely matches the driving experience of the GT3. I'm not talking about performance, I'm talking about quality, immediacy, intensity; more a subjective driver/car connection. From a performance standpoint, vettes have always been a far better value proposition.
01-09-2014, 03:53 PM
#87
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My post above was to contradict Wanna's pure speed whiny excuses, I am WELL aware of the intangible factors including substance, overall build quality, driving feel, flat six sound, looks (my wife loves the look of the 911 and doesn't like the Vette), etc. that makes a 911, a 911. I get it.
That is why, again, I fully intend to look at the 991 GT3 RS offerings when I decide on my next track/weekend warrior vehicle to replace my ZR. It will likely be down to the 991 GT3 RS and C7 ZR1. I haven't gotten paid yet for my track driving, so maybe there is something more than outright speed to the whole driving experience?
It's two different arguments. Wanna is whining I'm cheating because I have a fast almost stock Vette on slicks and it's not fair to compare against slower, more expensive Porsche offerings. The other argument relates to is the Porsche a more enjoyable and nicer overall car to drive even if it's slower? It is likely that it is!! Again, two completely different arguments.
That is why, again, I fully intend to look at the 991 GT3 RS offerings when I decide on my next track/weekend warrior vehicle to replace my ZR. It will likely be down to the 991 GT3 RS and C7 ZR1. I haven't gotten paid yet for my track driving, so maybe there is something more than outright speed to the whole driving experience?
It's two different arguments. Wanna is whining I'm cheating because I have a fast almost stock Vette on slicks and it's not fair to compare against slower, more expensive Porsche offerings. The other argument relates to is the Porsche a more enjoyable and nicer overall car to drive even if it's slower? It is likely that it is!! Again, two completely different arguments.
Who said anything about cheating? You can't cheat in a DE!
I don't see how simple logic defies your thought process. You have 640 hp and you are boasting about beating cars with less than 500. It doesn't matter how much they cost, or how high they rev., it still doesn't make any sense.
How about you stop making excuses and put the aero on your car so you can actually win a TT (vs real competition)
01-09-2014, 04:35 PM
#88
Rennlist Member
Uh, I won the last TT at Eagles Canyon without aero? I ran 3 sessions and set a faster lap than anyone did the entire weekend.
You seem the think horsepower is all that matters. If that was the case, wouldn't my car be faster than yours? Oh wait a minute, that's not the only factor. Huh? Plus, not even sure I believe my car has less rwhp than yours. It wouldn't surprise me if you run multiple maps/tunes.
I'm not making any excuses. You whine and complain when my Vette runs faster than German technological marvels and then say, "Well, it should, it has 638hp. It's not fair, wah, wah, wah."
Then, when your "underpowered" turbocharged highly modded Frankenstein P-car is SUPPOSEDLY faster than my near stock ZR1, you don't mention the huge number of mods to your car to even give it a chance. You keep going back to my unfair hp advantage, but you have no problem exploiting all of your advantages to SUPPOSEDLY be faster. Give me a break.
Run what your brung. You clearly don't understand that concept. Additionally, when I post my lap times, it's not a slap in the face to P-cars. You are the one who says I'm picking on P-cars when I don't even bring them into the conversation. You are the one that brings them into the conversation. I may discuss it only after you bring it up and say I'm picking on the poor special-ed kid in class. The ONLY competition around here for me in TT are OTHER CORVETTES. Period. Why would I even bring up P-car when comparing my lap times? It's not worth the time.
You seem the think horsepower is all that matters. If that was the case, wouldn't my car be faster than yours? Oh wait a minute, that's not the only factor. Huh? Plus, not even sure I believe my car has less rwhp than yours. It wouldn't surprise me if you run multiple maps/tunes.
I'm not making any excuses. You whine and complain when my Vette runs faster than German technological marvels and then say, "Well, it should, it has 638hp. It's not fair, wah, wah, wah."
Then, when your "underpowered" turbocharged highly modded Frankenstein P-car is SUPPOSEDLY faster than my near stock ZR1, you don't mention the huge number of mods to your car to even give it a chance. You keep going back to my unfair hp advantage, but you have no problem exploiting all of your advantages to SUPPOSEDLY be faster. Give me a break.
Run what your brung. You clearly don't understand that concept. Additionally, when I post my lap times, it's not a slap in the face to P-cars. You are the one who says I'm picking on P-cars when I don't even bring them into the conversation. You are the one that brings them into the conversation. I may discuss it only after you bring it up and say I'm picking on the poor special-ed kid in class. The ONLY competition around here for me in TT are OTHER CORVETTES. Period. Why would I even bring up P-car when comparing my lap times? It's not worth the time.
01-09-2014, 04:41 PM
#89
Uh, I won the last TT at Eagles Canyon without aero? I ran 3 sessions and set a faster lap than anyone did the entire weekend.
You seem the think horsepower is all that matters. If that was the case, wouldn't my car be faster than yours? Oh wait a minute, that's not the only factor. Huh? Plus, not even sure I believe my car has less rwhp than yours. It wouldn't surprise me if you run multiple maps/tunes.
I'm not making any excuses. You whine and complain when my Vette runs faster than German technological marvels and then say, "Well, it should, it has 638hp. It's not fair, wah, wah, wah."
Then, when your "underpowered" turbocharged highly modded Frankenstein P-car is SUPPOSEDLY faster than my near stock ZR1, you don't mention the huge number of mods to your car to even give it a chance. You keep going back to my unfair hp advantage, but you have no problem exploiting all of your advantages to SUPPOSEDLY be faster. Give me a break.
Run what your brung. You clearly don't understand that concept. Additionally, when I post my lap times, it's not a slap in the face to P-cars. You are the one who says I'm picking on P-cars when I don't even bring them into the conversation. You are the one that brings them into the conversation. I may discuss it only after you bring it up and say I'm picking on the poor special-ed kid in class. The ONLY competition around here for me in TT are OTHER CORVETTES. Period. Why would I even bring up P-car when comparing my lap times? It's not worth the time.
You seem the think horsepower is all that matters. If that was the case, wouldn't my car be faster than yours? Oh wait a minute, that's not the only factor. Huh? Plus, not even sure I believe my car has less rwhp than yours. It wouldn't surprise me if you run multiple maps/tunes.
I'm not making any excuses. You whine and complain when my Vette runs faster than German technological marvels and then say, "Well, it should, it has 638hp. It's not fair, wah, wah, wah."
Then, when your "underpowered" turbocharged highly modded Frankenstein P-car is SUPPOSEDLY faster than my near stock ZR1, you don't mention the huge number of mods to your car to even give it a chance. You keep going back to my unfair hp advantage, but you have no problem exploiting all of your advantages to SUPPOSEDLY be faster. Give me a break.
Run what your brung. You clearly don't understand that concept. Additionally, when I post my lap times, it's not a slap in the face to P-cars. You are the one who says I'm picking on P-cars when I don't even bring them into the conversation. You are the one that brings them into the conversation. I may discuss it only after you bring it up and say I'm picking on the poor special-ed kid in class. The ONLY competition around here for me in TT are OTHER CORVETTES. Period. Why would I even bring up P-car when comparing my lap times? It's not worth the time.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...59026428,d.eW0
01-09-2014, 05:15 PM
#90
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