Your thoughts on Break In Period for GT3's
12-01-2013, 12:22 AM
#76
Rennlist Member
Of all the cars I have seen going straight to the track, none seem to be any less good. I'll add proper warmup, I've taken it to the track after 400 miles of varying speeds, changed oil and kept RPM on day one under 7000' day 2 7500 and changed oil again.
But for the entire life of the car never over 3000RPM till fully warmed up. Always maximum cool down room, if possible drive straight off the track into town to refuel without stopping.
I know what the manual says but on cold days I go gas up at the track or let it run for 5 minutes. That car was sold and now has 25k miles all is good with engine and transmission. Probably half those are track miles.
12-01-2013, 12:34 AM
#77
Nordschleife Master
12-01-2013, 09:18 AM
#79
Rennlist Member
Back in post #34 of this thread, Chris (911rox) wrote that his ROW manual specified that one should "avoid track use and Porsche schools" for the first 3000KM, which is close to 2K miles. While apparently no RPM limit is specified as it is in the US manual, that seems a consistent indicator that Porsche is recommending against full throttle high rev situations for a considerable number of miles, whether you're in the USA or not.
It's your car, you paid for it, drive it like you want. As I wrote earlier, for full disclosure at resale time just make sure your ad specifies that you flogged the car from day one. I'm sure the potential buyer will understand that "it's a Porsche" and will have no misgivings.
It's your car, you paid for it, drive it like you want. As I wrote earlier, for full disclosure at resale time just make sure your ad specifies that you flogged the car from day one. I'm sure the potential buyer will understand that "it's a Porsche" and will have no misgivings.
As per an earlier post of mine, the word was that all GT mezger engines were hot tested to ensure they met hp specification or stripped and redone... Thus they'd seen redline before thus my choice of run in procedure. With this new engine, I'd say this won't be the case and a more conservative approach is warranted although I think 3000km is a bit rich...
As you rightly pointed out, those paying need to decide how they'll go about the process.
Last edited by 911rox; 12-01-2013 at 09:42 AM.
12-01-2013, 10:44 AM
#80
The following was posted on PistonHeads last year by a guy who went on the factory tour.
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Some engines are randomly selected to be tested on a dyno stand before they are installed into the car. The assembly plant has 5 dyno rooms located directly off the production line. The day I was on the tour, there were around 40 engines lined up on dollies. Some of these engines were in the process of being tested for quality control purposes. Once the engine is bolted onto the dyno, warm water is circulated throughout the engine to bring it up to temperature. The operator then starts the engine and checks for the correct pressures and temperature before the actual test begins. Engine speed is then increased in RPM steps to about 80% of its red line. The entire engine run takes around 30 minutes. Since each engine type (Turbo, GT3, Boxster or Carrera…) has a different red line, all of the data is recorded and analyzed after the test is completed. After the engine is turned off, the engine is again checked for seal leaks and its actual HP is compared to its advertised HP. To pass final inspection, the engine has to develop at least 100% of its advertised HP rating. Also, the engine cannot produce more than 5% over that same advertised rating. If the engine falls out of those parameters, the engine is rejected and then torn down to determine why it did not deliver the anticipated HP.
When the test was completed, a Porsche engineer came over to review the results. I asked him “Why does Porsche feel it is safe for a new engine to run at nearly full throttle in the factory, while the customer must limit the engine speed to no more than 4,000 RPM for a 2,000 mile break-in period?” The engineer replied:
So breaking it down into layman’s terminology, it all comes down to; higher RPM equates to more heat, which leads to greater expansion. For a new engine, that can mean uneven wear on certain parts if excessive heat is allowed to build up. In Porsche’s opinion, the thermal expansion of different parts and various materials need time to adjust to one another. Porsche’s time frame for that to occur is calculated to be 2,000 miles, with the heat restriction being 4,000 RPM.
When the test was completed, a Porsche engineer came over to review the results. I asked him “Why does Porsche feel it is safe for a new engine to run at nearly full throttle in the factory, while the customer must limit the engine speed to no more than 4,000 RPM for a 2,000 mile break-in period?” The engineer replied:
“You do not understand. When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short. In other words, the bearings, pistons and cylinders never get a chance to thermally expand to their maximum. Therefore, there is little wear on the moving components. But when you drive a car on the street, the engine parts expand considerably more because of the heat being generated from the engine running for an extended period of time. No matter how tight the tolerances are, there is always a slight amount of expansion in the material. The moving parts can wear quickly if exposed to excessive heat and not always in a uniform way. We also constantly vary the speed and allow the engine to run at both high and low RPM’s”.
“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in). Porsche’s own tests reveal that after 2,000 miles have been driven, all of the moving parts have had a chance to wear into their adjacent surfaces and then an increase in engine RPM is permissible.”
The engineer commented that there were many other moving parts other than the engine that needed break-in as well. Wheel bearings, constant velocity joints, tires, brakes and transmission were just some of the other components that were mentioned.“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in). Porsche’s own tests reveal that after 2,000 miles have been driven, all of the moving parts have had a chance to wear into their adjacent surfaces and then an increase in engine RPM is permissible.”
So breaking it down into layman’s terminology, it all comes down to; higher RPM equates to more heat, which leads to greater expansion. For a new engine, that can mean uneven wear on certain parts if excessive heat is allowed to build up. In Porsche’s opinion, the thermal expansion of different parts and various materials need time to adjust to one another. Porsche’s time frame for that to occur is calculated to be 2,000 miles, with the heat restriction being 4,000 RPM.
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12-01-2013, 10:58 AM
#81
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^ Or more simply, Porsche knows more about this car and engine than you do, so best course of action is to follow their break-in advice.
12-01-2013, 11:26 AM
#82
Race Director
That's great info you just posted! Just what I was looking for. Not sure how to drive her home from Germany to Italy while following these procedures, but this gives me renewed reason to observe the break-in very closely.
12-01-2013, 12:31 PM
#87
Rennlist Member
All I know is Porsche has a warranty on the car and they do not want to be paying warranty bills. Rather they prefer you buy the car and "break it in" to protect their warranty expenses should something fail. For a few months, you basically bought a car you cannot use for what it is intended. Let's be honest, most will exceed the break in limitations.
I ask this question. If it is so important to the durability of the car why not make it mandatory?
12-01-2013, 01:06 PM
#89
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I have owned several Porsche and never had a problem. It's your car do what you will with it. I have heard owners swear that by not breaking in the car their cars are faster than those that do.
All I know is Porsche has a warranty on the car and they do not want to be paying warranty bills. Rather they prefer you buy the car and "break it in" to protect their warranty expenses should something fail. For a few months, you basically bought a car you cannot use for what it is intended. Let's be honest, most will exceed the break in limitations.
I ask this question. If it is so important to the durability of the car why not make it mandatory?
All I know is Porsche has a warranty on the car and they do not want to be paying warranty bills. Rather they prefer you buy the car and "break it in" to protect their warranty expenses should something fail. For a few months, you basically bought a car you cannot use for what it is intended. Let's be honest, most will exceed the break in limitations.
I ask this question. If it is so important to the durability of the car why not make it mandatory?
12-01-2013, 01:23 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
This is fast becoming as annoying of a thread as the manual vs PDK thread. Each side just restates their opinion over and over for 13 pages
Why bother, when neither side will change the mind of the other?
Why bother, when neither side will change the mind of the other?