Your thoughts on Break In Period for GT3's
12-01-2013, 01:34 PM
#91
Race Director
Because we're bored and self-absorbed with our first world problems?
12-01-2013, 01:50 PM
#92
Still - for all Porsches I've owned there's never been a requirement to limit the rpms to 4000 during break-in... If the engineers thought it was super important wouldn't it apply to all country versions?
12-01-2013, 03:43 PM
#93
12-01-2013, 05:03 PM
#94
Race Director
As has been pointed out by several posters, issues like increased oil consumption, reduced power output, and increased wear are likely to manifest themselves in fairly subtle non-catastrophic ways and over time; IOW outside the warranty period when it will be no skin off of Porsche's nose.
Given the input from the manufacturer and info from sources like the factory engineer that alpine-al quoted, and absent any credible data to the contrary, I can't think of a single reason not to follow the factory recommendation, or something close to it, except for a lack of patience or a need for instant gratification. Personally, I'm a patient man.....
12-02-2013, 03:58 PM
#96
Three Wheelin'
The following was posted on PistonHeads last year by a guy who went on the factory tour.
.
Some engines are randomly selected to be tested on a dyno stand before they are installed into the car. The assembly plant has 5 dyno rooms located directly off the production line. The day I was on the tour, there were around 40 engines lined up on dollies. Some of these engines were in the process of being tested for quality control purposes. Once the engine is bolted onto the dyno, warm water is circulated throughout the engine to bring it up to temperature. The operator then starts the engine and checks for the correct pressures and temperature before the actual test begins. Engine speed is then increased in RPM steps to about 80% of its red line. The entire engine run takes around 30 minutes. Since each engine type (Turbo, GT3, Boxster or Carrera…) has a different red line, all of the data is recorded and analyzed after the test is completed. After the engine is turned off, the engine is again checked for seal leaks and its actual HP is compared to its advertised HP. To pass final inspection, the engine has to develop at least 100% of its advertised HP rating. Also, the engine cannot produce more than 5% over that same advertised rating. If the engine falls out of those parameters, the engine is rejected and then torn down to determine why it did not deliver the anticipated HP.
When the test was completed, a Porsche engineer came over to review the results. I asked him “Why does Porsche feel it is safe for a new engine to run at nearly full throttle in the factory, while the customer must limit the engine speed to no more than 4,000 RPM for a 2,000 mile break-in period?” The engineer replied:
So breaking it down into layman’s terminology, it all comes down to; higher RPM equates to more heat, which leads to greater expansion. For a new engine, that can mean uneven wear on certain parts if excessive heat is allowed to build up. In Porsche’s opinion, the thermal expansion of different parts and various materials need time to adjust to one another. Porsche’s time frame for that to occur is calculated to be 2,000 miles, with the heat restriction being 4,000 RPM.
When the test was completed, a Porsche engineer came over to review the results. I asked him “Why does Porsche feel it is safe for a new engine to run at nearly full throttle in the factory, while the customer must limit the engine speed to no more than 4,000 RPM for a 2,000 mile break-in period?” The engineer replied:
“You do not understand. When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short. In other words, the bearings, pistons and cylinders never get a chance to thermally expand to their maximum. Therefore, there is little wear on the moving components. But when you drive a car on the street, the engine parts expand considerably more because of the heat being generated from the engine running for an extended period of time. No matter how tight the tolerances are, there is always a slight amount of expansion in the material. The moving parts can wear quickly if exposed to excessive heat and not always in a uniform way. We also constantly vary the speed and allow the engine to run at both high and low RPM’s”.
“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in). Porsche’s own tests reveal that after 2,000 miles have been driven, all of the moving parts have had a chance to wear into their adjacent surfaces and then an increase in engine RPM is permissible.”
The engineer commented that there were many other moving parts other than the engine that needed break-in as well. Wheel bearings, constant velocity joints, tires, brakes and transmission were just some of the other components that were mentioned.“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in). Porsche’s own tests reveal that after 2,000 miles have been driven, all of the moving parts have had a chance to wear into their adjacent surfaces and then an increase in engine RPM is permissible.”
So breaking it down into layman’s terminology, it all comes down to; higher RPM equates to more heat, which leads to greater expansion. For a new engine, that can mean uneven wear on certain parts if excessive heat is allowed to build up. In Porsche’s opinion, the thermal expansion of different parts and various materials need time to adjust to one another. Porsche’s time frame for that to occur is calculated to be 2,000 miles, with the heat restriction being 4,000 RPM.
.
12-02-2013, 04:35 PM
#98
Race Director
Agree. The one thing I don't get is the bit from the author about how one person builds each engine on a production line. I visited the engine building facility in 2009 right after they opened it and have seen the Nat Geo vid on the Porsche factory. Not only does one person no longer build each engine, the idea of one person building something on a moving production line doesn't even make sense.....
12-02-2013, 05:36 PM
#99
Burning Brakes
I agree. Things do change quickly. The part on leather for the interior seats is not valid also as on the film. Found out it all 911 seats are sown by a subcontractor. My cousin is in quality control for the vender in Europe.
12-02-2013, 06:05 PM
#100
Nordschleife Master
Personally,I'd follow the recommended break in procedure,whether I plan to keep the car for many years or sell it after a couple of years,because I'm an enthusiast.
BUT
I see so many 911s being sold with very low miles and I'm pretty confident the 991 GT3 won't be an exception...so there will be those who will get their " fix " with this car and move on to the next best thing,or some will sell before the warranty is up. Since not following the break in procedure MIGHT cause excessive oil consumption in the long run,I'm wondering...Would MOST of the owners moving to the next best thing really worry(care) about break in? Probably not. And I don't blame them...
BUT
I see so many 911s being sold with very low miles and I'm pretty confident the 991 GT3 won't be an exception...so there will be those who will get their " fix " with this car and move on to the next best thing,or some will sell before the warranty is up. Since not following the break in procedure MIGHT cause excessive oil consumption in the long run,I'm wondering...Would MOST of the owners moving to the next best thing really worry(care) about break in? Probably not. And I don't blame them...
12-02-2013, 06:58 PM
#101
Rennlist Member
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It's pretty clear that there are conflicting opinions about this. Here's an interesting idea for those who believe in no break-in to test your belief (and that of others) in it's benefits. At re-sale time, proudly post in your Autotrader ad that you drove the car right off the lot like you stole it. I'm sure potential buyers will be impressed! 
12-02-2013, 10:23 PM
#102
Rennlist Member
The following was posted on PistonHeads last year by a guy who went on the factory tour.
.
Some engines are randomly selected to be tested on a dyno stand before they are installed into the car. The assembly plant has 5 dyno rooms located directly off the production line. The day I was on the tour, there were around 40 engines lined up on dollies. Some of these engines were in the process of being tested for quality control purposes. Once the engine is bolted onto the dyno, warm water is circulated throughout the engine to bring it up to temperature. The operator then starts the engine and checks for the correct pressures and temperature before the actual test begins. Engine speed is then increased in RPM steps to about 80% of its red line. The entire engine run takes around 30 minutes. Since each engine type (Turbo, GT3, Boxster or Carrera…) has a different red line, all of the data is recorded and analyzed after the test is completed. After the engine is turned off, the engine is again checked for seal leaks and its actual HP is compared to its advertised HP. To pass final inspection, the engine has to develop at least 100% of its advertised HP rating. Also, the engine cannot produce more than 5% over that same advertised rating. If the engine falls out of those parameters, the engine is rejected and then torn down to determine why it did not deliver the anticipated HP.
When the test was completed, a Porsche engineer came over to review the results. I asked him “Why does Porsche feel it is safe for a new engine to run at nearly full throttle in the factory, while the customer must limit the engine speed to no more than 4,000 RPM for a 2,000 mile break-in period?” The engineer replied:
So breaking it down into layman’s terminology, it all comes down to; higher RPM equates to more heat, which leads to greater expansion. For a new engine, that can mean uneven wear on certain parts if excessive heat is allowed to build up. In Porsche’s opinion, the thermal expansion of different parts and various materials need time to adjust to one another. Porsche’s time frame for that to occur is calculated to be 2,000 miles, with the heat restriction being 4,000 RPM.
When the test was completed, a Porsche engineer came over to review the results. I asked him “Why does Porsche feel it is safe for a new engine to run at nearly full throttle in the factory, while the customer must limit the engine speed to no more than 4,000 RPM for a 2,000 mile break-in period?” The engineer replied:
“You do not understand. When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short. In other words, the bearings, pistons and cylinders never get a chance to thermally expand to their maximum. Therefore, there is little wear on the moving components. But when you drive a car on the street, the engine parts expand considerably more because of the heat being generated from the engine running for an extended period of time. No matter how tight the tolerances are, there is always a slight amount of expansion in the material. The moving parts can wear quickly if exposed to excessive heat and not always in a uniform way. We also constantly vary the speed and allow the engine to run at both high and low RPM’s”.
“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in). Porsche’s own tests reveal that after 2,000 miles have been driven, all of the moving parts have had a chance to wear into their adjacent surfaces and then an increase in engine RPM is permissible.”
The engineer commented that there were many other moving parts other than the engine that needed break-in as well. Wheel bearings, constant velocity joints, tires, brakes and transmission were just some of the other components that were mentioned.“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in). Porsche’s own tests reveal that after 2,000 miles have been driven, all of the moving parts have had a chance to wear into their adjacent surfaces and then an increase in engine RPM is permissible.”
So breaking it down into layman’s terminology, it all comes down to; higher RPM equates to more heat, which leads to greater expansion. For a new engine, that can mean uneven wear on certain parts if excessive heat is allowed to build up. In Porsche’s opinion, the thermal expansion of different parts and various materials need time to adjust to one another. Porsche’s time frame for that to occur is calculated to be 2,000 miles, with the heat restriction being 4,000 RPM.
.
All I know is that so many cars are sold after a year or two without having done their break in mileage... I doubt they all haven't had their cherry popped....
01-17-2014, 06:37 PM
#103
Rennlist Member
Does everyone think that the engine of a CUP car will see a break in?
Nevertheless I have "sympathy" for the mechanical parts and will do "some" break in.
Peter
Nevertheless I have "sympathy" for the mechanical parts and will do "some" break in.
Peter
01-17-2014, 06:40 PM
#104
A CUP car engine is built within different specifications. The engines are rebuilt frequently and are not expected to last 100k miles.
