991 GT3 Sportauto Supertest - DISAPPOINTMENT!
10-21-2013, 09:23 PM
#136
Rennlist Member
Must say he did look rather off colour in the Hi Res video! He wipes his nose, his brow etc, We all thought he was being flippant/lazy driver but maybe he was actually under the flu! Could explain why the lap was off.
Its interesting now we are getting real people, real drivers (not PAG guys) saying real things about this car in Europe (where some rel tracks live). Very exciting. Only a few weeks before we get lost of REAL feedback
Its interesting now we are getting real people, real drivers (not PAG guys) saying real things about this car in Europe (where some rel tracks live). Very exciting. Only a few weeks before we get lost of REAL feedback
10-21-2013, 09:59 PM
#138
Drifting
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Maybe he is just a bit fidelly when driving normal cars. Besides its not that easy to wipe your fore head or scratch your nose when you are driving.
I've heard full stories of Phil Hill flip music tapes over to the other side going full bore around corners going double the posted limited without even thinking about it. But I'm talking about Phil Hill and not some other outstanding driving bloke like walter Rohrl or Nigel Mansel.
I've heard full stories of Phil Hill flip music tapes over to the other side going full bore around corners going double the posted limited without even thinking about it. But I'm talking about Phil Hill and not some other outstanding driving bloke like walter Rohrl or Nigel Mansel.
10-22-2013, 03:28 AM
#139
Rennlist Member
Interesting thread, thanks for posting Peter.
Look forward to more track junkies posting as deliveries, fixes and patches start.
A manual guy loving PDK-s gives one hope, Porsche fixing the cars already is good.
Look forward to more track junkies posting as deliveries, fixes and patches start.
A manual guy loving PDK-s gives one hope, Porsche fixing the cars already is good.
10-22-2013, 03:33 AM
#140
Rennlist Member
There is a video of a yellow car being driven by another amateur at Imola in a separate thread. I cant wait to get mine on some of these European tracks. Ive only done Ring/Spa but HHR and Imola look really nice.
10-22-2013, 01:45 PM
#141
Rennlist Member
Jeez, what a long thread! 
I think OP disappointment is a bit too exaggerated. As someone else posted, the new GT3 is somewhere between .2 GT3 RS and RS 4.0 and I think Porsche should not claim it's always faster than RS 4.0, I bet on some tracks it's faster, and on some, it's slower, etc... I think one forgets that the car is heavier! So, it's actually got more room with some weight loss.
The one key factor however, is HOW the extra speed was achieved?! All past gens achieved the extra speed with losing weight, and tuning of engine & suspension for more power, more G, and to borrow more parts from the racing program (i.e. RS 4.0). In this gen, the extra speed was achieved with more technology, for the car to do more of the work and ECU to adjust the rear wheels for more grip, and PDK to shorten the shifts, while it added more weight to the car. I think in hands of the best drivers, the last gen and new one won't be that different, but in hands of the average driver, I bet 991 would be faster!
Lastly, the 997.2 and past gens were quite reliable on the track AND were easy to maintain... this is NOT THE CASE for 991, and that to me would make it more of a faster Carrera, than a GT3 track car, and the bigger departure from the past.
I think OP disappointment is a bit too exaggerated. As someone else posted, the new GT3 is somewhere between .2 GT3 RS and RS 4.0 and I think Porsche should not claim it's always faster than RS 4.0, I bet on some tracks it's faster, and on some, it's slower, etc... I think one forgets that the car is heavier! So, it's actually got more room with some weight loss.
The one key factor however, is HOW the extra speed was achieved?! All past gens achieved the extra speed with losing weight, and tuning of engine & suspension for more power, more G, and to borrow more parts from the racing program (i.e. RS 4.0). In this gen, the extra speed was achieved with more technology, for the car to do more of the work and ECU to adjust the rear wheels for more grip, and PDK to shorten the shifts, while it added more weight to the car. I think in hands of the best drivers, the last gen and new one won't be that different, but in hands of the average driver, I bet 991 would be faster!
Lastly, the 997.2 and past gens were quite reliable on the track AND were easy to maintain... this is NOT THE CASE for 991, and that to me would make it more of a faster Carrera, than a GT3 track car, and the bigger departure from the past.
10-22-2013, 02:38 PM
#142
Burning Brakes
10-22-2013, 02:55 PM
#143
Jeez, what a long thread!
I think OP disappointment is a bit too exaggerated. As someone else posted, the new GT3 is somewhere between .2 GT3 RS and RS 4.0 and I think Porsche should not claim it's always faster than RS 4.0, I bet on some tracks it's faster, and on some, it's slower, etc... I think one forgets that the car is heavier! So, it's actually got more room with some weight loss.
The one key factor however, is HOW the extra speed was achieved?! All past gens achieved the extra speed with losing weight, and tuning of engine & suspension for more power, more G, and to borrow more parts from the racing program (i.e. RS 4.0). In this gen, the extra speed was achieved with more technology, for the car to do more of the work and ECU to adjust the rear wheels for more grip, and PDK to shorten the shifts, while it added more weight to the car. I think in hands of the best drivers, the last gen and new one won't be that different, but in hands of the average driver, I bet 991 would be faster!
Lastly, the 997.2 and past gens were quite reliable on the track AND were easy to maintain... this is NOT THE CASE for 991, and that to me would make it more of a faster Carrera, than a GT3 track car, and the bigger departure from the past.
I think OP disappointment is a bit too exaggerated. As someone else posted, the new GT3 is somewhere between .2 GT3 RS and RS 4.0 and I think Porsche should not claim it's always faster than RS 4.0, I bet on some tracks it's faster, and on some, it's slower, etc... I think one forgets that the car is heavier! So, it's actually got more room with some weight loss.
The one key factor however, is HOW the extra speed was achieved?! All past gens achieved the extra speed with losing weight, and tuning of engine & suspension for more power, more G, and to borrow more parts from the racing program (i.e. RS 4.0). In this gen, the extra speed was achieved with more technology, for the car to do more of the work and ECU to adjust the rear wheels for more grip, and PDK to shorten the shifts, while it added more weight to the car. I think in hands of the best drivers, the last gen and new one won't be that different, but in hands of the average driver, I bet 991 would be faster!
Lastly, the 997.2 and past gens were quite reliable on the track AND were easy to maintain... this is NOT THE CASE for 991, and that to me would make it more of a faster Carrera, than a GT3 track car, and the bigger departure from the past.
991 C2Ss have been repeatedly T.H.R.A.S.H.E.D. at the track; DEs and racing, without issues.
10-22-2013, 05:49 PM
#144
Race Car
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The one key factor however, is HOW the extra speed was achieved?! All past gens achieved the extra speed with losing weight, and tuning of engine & suspension for more power, more G, and to borrow more parts from the racing program (i.e. RS 4.0). In this gen, the extra speed was achieved with more technology, for the car to do more of the work and ECU to adjust the rear wheels for more grip, and PDK to shorten the shifts, while it added more weight to the car.
The primary issue is whether the new GT3 has 'crossed the line' in terms of tech. IMO, as stated before, tech isn't the enemy, it's poor implementation of technology. Porsche, more than any other manufacturer has strived to make the technology transparent and not be a buzzkill to the driving experience. I think the reviews so far support a conclusion that the new car is a blast, with some of the early adopters being 997 GT3 RS owners.
10-22-2013, 11:16 PM
#145
Pro
I would not get to worked up over this one data point.
There have been close to a dozen different reviews and tests on the 991 GT-3, all indicating that it is an exceptional car (the best 911 ever) even by Porsche's standards. The track, the individual car and the driver all greatly influence
the outcome. Perhaps here all of the variables worked against it.
My 2015 GT-3 (4th quarter 2014 build) will definitely stay on order.
There have been close to a dozen different reviews and tests on the 991 GT-3, all indicating that it is an exceptional car (the best 911 ever) even by Porsche's standards. The track, the individual car and the driver all greatly influence
the outcome. Perhaps here all of the variables worked against it.
My 2015 GT-3 (4th quarter 2014 build) will definitely stay on order.
10-22-2013, 11:23 PM
#146
Rennlist Member
Here Here! Good points. Its funny how we are now "dissapointed" that the new GT3 is only a little better than the 2010 997.2 GT3RS and perhaps not as "quick" as the 2011 GT3 4.0RS!
Actually, everything I am hearing, apart from this one SA test where it appears HvS was not at his best form, is that the new GT3 is actually quicker real world and track than the 4.0RS. Even the guy in EVO mag who lent them the Mexico Blue 4.0RS and got to drive the GT3 stated so in his view (I believe he has since ordered a new GT3).
I guess with more time and test we will know for sure. Definitely in the next month....
If Porsche really still had gearbox and conrod issues do you think they would be allowing all and sundry to thrash their product around the track?
Actually, everything I am hearing, apart from this one SA test where it appears HvS was not at his best form, is that the new GT3 is actually quicker real world and track than the 4.0RS. Even the guy in EVO mag who lent them the Mexico Blue 4.0RS and got to drive the GT3 stated so in his view (I believe he has since ordered a new GT3).
I guess with more time and test we will know for sure. Definitely in the next month....
If Porsche really still had gearbox and conrod issues do you think they would be allowing all and sundry to thrash their product around the track?
10-23-2013, 04:09 PM
#147
Rennlist Member
There is something I am puzzled about regarding the SA test. HvS claims the car is not very manageable at the limit and requires greater skill to drive it. If Porsche test drivers completed the Ring in 7:25 and rumored lower times then how is it that HvS was at the limit since he was seven seconds slower? What am I missing?
10-23-2013, 04:16 PM
#148
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There is something I am puzzled about regarding the SA test. HvS claims the car is not very manageable at the limit and requires greater skill to drive it. If Porsche test drivers completed the Ring in 7:25 and rumored lower times then how is it that HvS was at the limit since he was seven seconds slower? What am I missing?
10-24-2013, 12:01 PM
#149
Burning Brakes
There is something I am puzzled about regarding the SA test. HvS claims the car is not very manageable at the limit and requires greater skill to drive it. If Porsche test drivers completed the Ring in 7:25 and rumored lower times then how is it that HvS was at the limit since he was seven seconds slower? What am I missing?
10-26-2013, 08:42 PM
#150
Rennlist Member
If a magazine gets a slightly "unhealthy" car or one that had a technical or mechanical issue like the one from the original OP post then that can change everything especially when we are talking a matter of a few seconds for comparison.
I worked for BMW as a driver for their engineering dept. many years ago. Like almost 20 years ago. E36 M3 was what we were working on. Anyway, we would sometimes have to go through 4 or 5 pre-production press cars to find one that wouldn't be a "ringer" but was super healthy for the magazine guys. It was a big frickin deal every time!
I worked for BMW as a driver for their engineering dept. many years ago. Like almost 20 years ago. E36 M3 was what we were working on. Anyway, we would sometimes have to go through 4 or 5 pre-production press cars to find one that wouldn't be a "ringer" but was super healthy for the magazine guys. It was a big frickin deal every time!