EVO Video 991 GT3 v M12C - Unbelievable!
08-23-2013, 01:08 PM
#136
Burning Brakes
...This track was that (An auto-x) plus one long straight where the MP12 made up a huge gap of time, but still came up short. Imagine how much faster the GT3 was in the twisty bits to negate that 7 mph (I think it was) on the straight. The GT3 then nullified even much of that in the braking zone based on the comments of the editors. That is a function of the tires from the twisty bits to the braking zone to the exit speed onto the front straight. The HP on the McLaren does absolutely nothing in the twisty bits if you can't put the power down on insufficient tires.
Not to mention the MP is turbo, so you have throttle response deficit and power application deficit relative to the NA GT3. That is actually a detriment in small twisty sections. HP for HP, NA is faster.
Like I said, understanding the dynamics of what they are talking about and how it applies means a lot.
Not to mention the MP is turbo, so you have throttle response deficit and power application deficit relative to the NA GT3. That is actually a detriment in small twisty sections. HP for HP, NA is faster.
Like I said, understanding the dynamics of what they are talking about and how it applies means a lot.
The only thing I understand is the difference in price between the 12C and GT3 is close to $100,000 and their performance is almost on par with one another. When you consider that journalistic reviews of the 12C have universally been exemplary, the GT3 performance/price value is off the charts.
Bingo.
Nobody here is buying a 991 GT3 to 'race', much less race for money. This car is not a race car; it's a street car.
5 seconds on the 'ring or 1 second on a 2 minute track really doesn't matter to me. And I doubt most buyers care unless you're a died in the wool bench racer.
IMO if you get that caught up in laptimes, you've lost the plot.
Nobody here is buying a 991 GT3 to 'race', much less race for money. This car is not a race car; it's a street car.
5 seconds on the 'ring or 1 second on a 2 minute track really doesn't matter to me. And I doubt most buyers care unless you're a died in the wool bench racer.
IMO if you get that caught up in laptimes, you've lost the plot.
08-23-2013, 01:34 PM
#137
Race Director
This wasn't supposed to be a race or an ultimate test, it was a comparison. Again in the print article, EVO expected the McLaren/GT3 comparison to be a "bloodbath" (their words) given the McLaren's power advantage, mid engine layout and price. The fact that it wasn't, tire differences or not, is significant. Does it mean that a perfectly spec'd McLaren couldn't beat a perfectly spec'd GT3 under any circumstances? No. But the GT3's showing is pretty impressive, regardless, and that's the point the article and video were making.
08-23-2013, 02:17 PM
#138
Pro
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let the 12C have the optional tires and beat the gt3 by .2 sec. Thats now 112K difference in price. I hope that makes you feel better. I would still be a proud owner of the GT3 knowing that I came that close. I don't remember any other car going through this much scrutiny. Every aspect of the new GT3 has been picked on and seemingly prevailed. I'm surprised the wing angle and license plate holder is not brought up yet.
At the end of the day, it looks like an amazing car and may even go toe to toe with it's soon big brother RS.
At the end of the day, it looks like an amazing car and may even go toe to toe with it's soon big brother RS.
08-23-2013, 02:33 PM
#139
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West Vancouver and San Francisco
Posts: 4,260
Received 1,224 Likes
on
603 Posts
The lightning lap is the car and driver lap time benchmark test at VIR. They did not test the 4.0, but there is a huge list of cars to compare to.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10
For example, they had ZR1 on PS2 tires, that melt away like wax on high horsepower cars, and ZR1 on on PSCs, which are much better fit for the car, within 1 second of each other. From talking to several ZR1 owners, PS2s are not usable on this car at the track, and even moving to PSS gives more than a second. Maybe there were other factors that caused it, but they are not in the table...
08-23-2013, 05:18 PM
#140
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,060
Received 4,371 Likes
on
2,487 Posts
Bingo.
Nobody here is buying a 991 GT3 to 'race', much less race for money. This car is not a race car; it's a street car.
5 seconds on the 'ring or 1 second on a 2 minute track really doesn't matter to me. And I doubt most buyers care unless you're a died in the wool bench racer.
IMO if you get that caught up in laptimes, you've lost the plot.
Nobody here is buying a 991 GT3 to 'race', much less race for money. This car is not a race car; it's a street car.
5 seconds on the 'ring or 1 second on a 2 minute track really doesn't matter to me. And I doubt most buyers care unless you're a died in the wool bench racer.
IMO if you get that caught up in laptimes, you've lost the plot.
08-23-2013, 05:50 PM
#143
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,060
Received 4,371 Likes
on
2,487 Posts
^ Good stuff, except that your right hand lingers on the shifter too long. 
08-23-2013, 05:53 PM
#144
Rennlist Member
08-23-2013, 06:19 PM
#145
Race Car
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I generally agree, except that the GT3 needs to be a car which can be routinely used on both the street and track (heavy track use, not babying it). Saying it's just a street car is letting it off too easy. There's a middle ground between street car and race car, and I'd like to see a GT3 closer to the latter.
It's a trackable street car. Perhaps still the best dual purpose street/track car ever made. But let's not confuse track driving with racing.
08-23-2013, 06:22 PM
#146
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,060
Received 4,371 Likes
on
2,487 Posts
08-23-2013, 06:58 PM
#147
Rennlist Member
I used to be terrible, pretty much steered hone handed.
I got pretty good but when we were not on it too hard I relaxes and don't focus too much. bad habit slipped back in I see. Thanks for pointing that out.
PDK will fix it right? But I will make that a big focus when the 996CUP arrives.
You never stop learning.
08-23-2013, 07:23 PM
#150
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Porsches have been beating larger, more powerful and more expensive cars on the race track and road since the 356 speedster started humbling American Iron on West Coast race circuits in the late 50s.
Theres no news here.
Say what you will regards track length and tyre choice but the 991 GT3 outperformed the m12C in the handling department on road and on track in that EVO Review and there's no argument about it - just read the review. It was more balanced, put its power down better, braked harder and turned into corners quicker. The M12C was understandable quicker on the straights. With 35% more power and torque that's understandable. With the optional track wheel package on most tracks in the USA and UK I would imagine there wouldn't be much between these two.
But yet again we are really comparing the boggo GT3 against these massive super cars. The 4.0RS, M12C, 458 and 2013 GTR.
Its understandable as the new 991 GT3RS hasnt broken cover yet but when it does what is there going to be to compare it against? Pagani? Lambo 400k Adventura? 458S? Stealth jet?
Theres no news here.
Say what you will regards track length and tyre choice but the 991 GT3 outperformed the m12C in the handling department on road and on track in that EVO Review and there's no argument about it - just read the review. It was more balanced, put its power down better, braked harder and turned into corners quicker. The M12C was understandable quicker on the straights. With 35% more power and torque that's understandable. With the optional track wheel package on most tracks in the USA and UK I would imagine there wouldn't be much between these two.
But yet again we are really comparing the boggo GT3 against these massive super cars. The 4.0RS, M12C, 458 and 2013 GTR.
Its understandable as the new 991 GT3RS hasnt broken cover yet but when it does what is there going to be to compare it against? Pagani? Lambo 400k Adventura? 458S? Stealth jet?