Article regarding he death of manual
05-25-2013, 04:28 PM
#32
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If you accept AP’s comments to EVO at face value, the reason for computer-controlled shifting, computer-controller RWS, PTV, etc., is to reduce the performance gap between pro drivers and the average Joe. It’s the same reason Nissan loaded up the GTR with electronic driving aids, and other manufacturers are following the same trend. As cars move to higher and higher horsepower levels and faster lap times, and as Porsche sells cars to a more diverse clientele, these aids will become more important for actualizing performance potential and preserving some degree of safety. I’m not crazy about the trend, but I can see their rationale for doing it. I’ll forgive them for it if the car turns out to be a hoot, which I expect it will be.
If there's a company that can pull off the modernization of the sports car yet retain its soul, it's Porsche.
IMHO.
To me, it's the implementation of technology, not the new tech itself. For example, Pete Stout's comments on PASM.
05-29-2013, 12:17 PM
#33
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From an instructor's viewpoint...
there are both pro's & con's with all this electronic wizardry.
Yes... less experienced drivers tend to be much faster than they would be when driving say a GT-R.
They also tend to have much bigger mishaps when they "run out of talent".
That said... the new technology is available and being offered by manufacturers, improving the performance.
It may take some of the fun away when tracking the newer cars... but it is here,,, and does improve "lap times".
there are both pro's & con's with all this electronic wizardry.
Yes... less experienced drivers tend to be much faster than they would be when driving say a GT-R.
They also tend to have much bigger mishaps when they "run out of talent".
That said... the new technology is available and being offered by manufacturers, improving the performance.
It may take some of the fun away when tracking the newer cars... but it is here,,, and does improve "lap times".
05-29-2013, 01:14 PM
#34
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If there is a clutch pedal it is only used for starts. During the race, clutch is not used. Same affect as a PDK.
BTW, I don't believe you are hostile to the members of this board when you post. You should allay your animus toward Porsche until which time you have had an opportunity to ride in or drive the GT3. If you are open minded, you may be pleasantly surprised. Oops, I am starting to sound like AP.
BTW, I don't believe you are hostile to the members of this board when you post. You should allay your animus toward Porsche until which time you have had an opportunity to ride in or drive the GT3. If you are open minded, you may be pleasantly surprised. Oops, I am starting to sound like AP.
Um no, not even close.
And even a good amount of single clutch sequential cars have not yet gone to paddle shift transmission.
And for those cars, the clutch is used on every downshift unless an autoblipper is equipped. There are a ton of race cars out there without either of the two VERY expensive additions to an already very expensive gearbox concept.
05-31-2013, 06:35 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
From an instructor's viewpoint...
there are both pro's & con's with all this electronic wizardry.
Yes... less experienced drivers tend to be much faster than they would be when driving say a GT-R.
They also tend to have much bigger mishaps when they "run out of talent".
That said... the new technology is available and being offered by manufacturers, improving the performance.
It may take some of the fun away when tracking the newer cars... but it is here,,, and does improve "lap times".
there are both pro's & con's with all this electronic wizardry.
Yes... less experienced drivers tend to be much faster than they would be when driving say a GT-R.
They also tend to have much bigger mishaps when they "run out of talent".
That said... the new technology is available and being offered by manufacturers, improving the performance.
It may take some of the fun away when tracking the newer cars... but it is here,,, and does improve "lap times".
Last edited by 911rox; 05-31-2013 at 07:15 AM.
05-31-2013, 07:35 AM
#36
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Speaking only for myself but faster lap times are only rewarding and satisfying when due to my talent and improved ability, not gizmos and electronic wizardry... In fact, one of my goals its to safely lap as close to my pro instructor's times as possible with as many aids etc switched off coz it ain't going to be hard to do with them on
05-31-2013, 01:54 PM
#38
Race Director
Speaking only for myself but faster lap times are only rewarding and satisfying when due to my talent and improved ability, not gizmos and electronic wizardry... In fact, one of my goals its to safely lap as close to my pro instructor's times as possible with as many aids etc switched off coz it ain't going to be hard to do with them on
Maybe you could drive a 991 GT3 to a sub 7:30 Ring time or the equivalent on your favorite track, but if you can't then the car clearly has all the headroom you'll ever need to showcase your ability.
05-31-2013, 08:01 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Respectfully, Chris, it seems to me your argument is meaningful only if one's talents exceed the capabilities of the car. Given equal drivers, it may be easier to match any given lap time of a 997 GT in a 991 GT3, but since the limits of the 991 are higher, it's still going to take exceptional skill to reach them.
Maybe you could drive a 991 GT3 to a sub 7:30 Ring time or the equivalent on your favorite track, but if you can't then the car clearly has all the headroom you'll ever need to showcase your ability.
Maybe you could drive a 991 GT3 to a sub 7:30 Ring time or the equivalent on your favorite track, but if you can't then the car clearly has all the headroom you'll ever need to showcase your ability.
A 991 will pull a faster around the same track and have more potential but the aids will do more work for me ensuring that I don't have to work as hard to close that gap to a time he sets.
05-31-2013, 10:32 PM
#41
Race Director
Mike, not exactly... The guy shown in the youtube vid above is a pro v8 supercar driver and has the ability and talent to far exceed the capabilities of the car. I use his services and those of one other driver to benchmark my car every couple days. I started 6-7 plus seconds off his time and it has taken 3 years to get to less than one second. Thats been 3 years of targeting those laps and now I am approaching them BUT still need to sort out my consistency which is far from perfect. For me its not about the time per say, he's already set that... Its about the challenge and process of getting there and the learning I have to do to get there, not what the car will bring to the party in the form of assistance...
A 991 will pull a faster around the same track and have more potential but the aids will do more work for me ensuring that I don't have to work as hard to close that gap to a time he sets.
06-02-2013, 10:13 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Impressive, Chris, and well done if you can match the gent in the vid. I will only add that I suspect the knock on the 991 GT3 as potentially too easy to drive and not challenging enough is being overstated and to get the best out of it will require a skill level similar to that required for the 997 GT3. Either way, the point being that for someone like me, at least, running out of car before I run out of talent is not likely to be a major problem.
Fair call on your part. I'm not against pdk and hope to one day have the opportunity to try one out on track to see for myself how engaging it can be. I just wouldn't spend the kind of many one costs here to find out and as I'm sure is the case there, try before you buy really isn't an option here, especially on track...
06-02-2013, 12:10 PM
#43
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The extra sharpness, higher spring rates, enhanced grip and consequent speed at corner entry and overall faster section times will surely add new elements to the track experience.
06-02-2013, 03:09 PM
#44
Allow us to 'test' drive it on the track!
hope to one day have the opportunity to try one out on track to see for myself how engaging it can be. I just wouldn't spend the kind of many one costs here to find out and as I'm sure is the case there, try before you buy really isn't an option here, especially on track...
Saludos,
Eduardo
Colorado
06-02-2013, 03:45 PM
#45
Frayed wrote :
..I’m sorry, but the rear wheel steering, even if it's still may be very efficient ..still make me think about some thing “that” (with a computer at the helm in the “rear cabin”) !!
While the new metal will be faster than the old, as it always has been wtih Porsche, that statement presumes the new tech (PDK and RWS notably) makes an amateur driver closer to a pro driver, bridging the gap. Easier to drive faster in absolute terms doesn't mean easier to drive pro laptimes.
