Back on Topic thread - Who's ordered
04-22-2013, 01:08 PM
#152
I think there is palpable anger and a strong feeling of disfranchisement. For decades Porsche instituted a certain pecking order, all the top-of-the-line cars were manual, whereas the automatics were for useful idiots to widen the revenue stream - the Cayennes of the day.
Now Porsche turned the tables. Suddenly the "manuals" are borderline losers stuck in the past who enjoy going slow, whereas the "automated" manuals are the proper "sport" option for "true enthusiast"... etc.
I think this is the heart of the matter. Customer regime change.
Now Porsche turned the tables. Suddenly the "manuals" are borderline losers stuck in the past who enjoy going slow, whereas the "automated" manuals are the proper "sport" option for "true enthusiast"... etc.
I think this is the heart of the matter. Customer regime change.
04-22-2013, 01:23 PM
#153
Rennlist Member
Not sure what you mean here. Initial press and some backroom info points to 4.0 track performance, and underrated motor (closer to 500 hp), while being a far better street car. I still think you are an RS buyer and don't think you'll be happy with a regular GT3, no matter the variant.
I think you need to wait and see how this GT saga works itself out. Be happy with your 4.0 and drive the schit out of it. Seriously. It's not the metal you drive, it's the experience.
I think you need to wait and see how this GT saga works itself out. Be happy with your 4.0 and drive the schit out of it. Seriously. It's not the metal you drive, it's the experience.
I meant track durability and setup. I'm sure it will be fast and fun enough.
I'll keep punishing the 4.0 but in full disclosure I'm starting to feel like a poser, not been to the track in 10 weeks and it's going to take a while due to workload.
Mooty. No sidelines for Peter and I. My post to Peter was sincere and he responded in honesty and with respect. All done there. Clean sand pit LOL!
I share the same trepidation as others with Porsches new direction. Ill show my colours here and tell you this will possibly be the last late model Porsche I own. If this 991 GT3 doesn't provide me the enjoyment I need nor fit into my lifestyle how I hope it does and get under my skin I will sell it and spend my money on one of their older models and fettle it to my pleasing. Ive been concerned about where Porsche was heading since the Cayenne. The VW thing didn't help any. There are so few "sports car companies" left on earth, well ones I can afford to buy from in any case!
Everything remains to be seen. I personally believe that this car may surprise us. Porsche is innovating again. I seriously hope Im not wrong, not because I will own one as that is a relatively temporary situation depending as I said on what this car "is", buts simply because if this car falls seriously short of the mark (and anything could be possible) then Porsche has taken a different direction and lost me along with many others. It will be the end of what we know. Instead of judging Porsche on the little known facts about the car we have now I will own it and try it. I watched many slag off Porsche for the move to water cooled, then the 996.1 GT3 and by the time I eventually tried one (I owned one in 2005 - it was a 2000 model) I realized first hand that Porsche had not got it wrong at all. What I perceived as going soft was really just innovation. I haven't seen so much innovation since the 996.1 GT3. Only evolution. Now with the 991 GT3 we have innovation again (perhaps even revolution!). This time I will be front of the trend and try it for myself instead of loosing years in the jungle making judgments on other peoples interpretations...
I share the same trepidation as others with Porsches new direction. Ill show my colours here and tell you this will possibly be the last late model Porsche I own. If this 991 GT3 doesn't provide me the enjoyment I need nor fit into my lifestyle how I hope it does and get under my skin I will sell it and spend my money on one of their older models and fettle it to my pleasing. Ive been concerned about where Porsche was heading since the Cayenne. The VW thing didn't help any. There are so few "sports car companies" left on earth, well ones I can afford to buy from in any case!
Everything remains to be seen. I personally believe that this car may surprise us. Porsche is innovating again. I seriously hope Im not wrong, not because I will own one as that is a relatively temporary situation depending as I said on what this car "is", buts simply because if this car falls seriously short of the mark (and anything could be possible) then Porsche has taken a different direction and lost me along with many others. It will be the end of what we know. Instead of judging Porsche on the little known facts about the car we have now I will own it and try it. I watched many slag off Porsche for the move to water cooled, then the 996.1 GT3 and by the time I eventually tried one (I owned one in 2005 - it was a 2000 model) I realized first hand that Porsche had not got it wrong at all. What I perceived as going soft was really just innovation. I haven't seen so much innovation since the 996.1 GT3. Only evolution. Now with the 991 GT3 we have innovation again (perhaps even revolution!). This time I will be front of the trend and try it for myself instead of loosing years in the jungle making judgments on other peoples interpretations...
No one can argue that Trackcar has a lot of credit on these forums when it comes to tracking discussions as I think we can all see he seriously tracks his cars.
His inputs are much appreciated(at least to me) even if they are mostly hesitant so far of the new GT3. In the end he might be right, along with a few others here who are stating the same opinions.
I'm just hoping he's wrong and the new car turns out to be a blast to drive and reliable as well
Cheers
His inputs are much appreciated(at least to me) even if they are mostly hesitant so far of the new GT3. In the end he might be right, along with a few others here who are stating the same opinions.
I'm just hoping he's wrong and the new car turns out to be a blast to drive and reliable as well
Cheers
I think there is palpable anger and a strong feeling of disfranchisement. For decades Porsche instituted a certain pecking order, all the top-of-the-line cars were manual, whereas the automatics were for useful idiots to widen the revenue stream - the Cayennes of the day.
Now Porsche turned the tables. Suddenly the "manuals" are borderline losers stuck in the past who enjoy going slow, whereas the "automated" manuals are the proper "sport" option for "true enthusiast"... etc.
I think this is the heart of the matter. Customer regime change.
Now Porsche turned the tables. Suddenly the "manuals" are borderline losers stuck in the past who enjoy going slow, whereas the "automated" manuals are the proper "sport" option for "true enthusiast"... etc.
I think this is the heart of the matter. Customer regime change.
If the Vipers TA and Corvette's Z51 fall apart or prove to need tons of mods more than the GT3, all we have is the GT3 again or pre-2014 GT3's.
Excluding warranty and if you are willing to write off mods, any other simpler heavily modified track car can be made to work....
Certainly not drinking the Fiat Coolaid / McLaren coolaid.
04-22-2013, 03:28 PM
#154
Race Director
I think there is palpable anger and a strong feeling of disfranchisement. For decades Porsche instituted a certain pecking order, all the top-of-the-line cars were manual, whereas the automatics were for useful idiots to widen the revenue stream - the Cayennes of the day.
Now Porsche turned the tables. Suddenly the "manuals" are borderline losers stuck in the past who enjoy going slow, whereas the "automated" manuals are the proper "sport" option for "true enthusiast"... etc.
I think this is the heart of the matter. Customer regime change.
Now Porsche turned the tables. Suddenly the "manuals" are borderline losers stuck in the past who enjoy going slow, whereas the "automated" manuals are the proper "sport" option for "true enthusiast"... etc.
I think this is the heart of the matter. Customer regime change.
Porsche isn't "turning the tables" in a vacuum, they are responding to a changing world. Unfortunately for some, the world seemed fine the way it was. My overly philosophical $.02.
04-22-2013, 03:44 PM
#155
Nordschleife Master
In regards to the 9A1 not proven to be durable to 'hardcore tracking', I would beg to differ. Sometimes the GT3 guys forget that there are other models out there at the track besides GT3s. Just to throw something into the pit, I will say that there is a certain rennlister here that drives a 987.2 boxster. He has put in 60+ track days in about 1.5 years. He runs lap times just as fast or faster than many GT3s on Hoosiers (legit drivers), and the car is essentially stock other than brake pads, lower LCAs, and R comp tires. No engine failures. For hardcore DE use, I'd say the engine holds up just fine.
04-22-2013, 05:51 PM
#156
Rennlist Member
Huh? 2 hours is not a long drive to get to a track. Most people aren't fortunate enough to have a track only 2 hours away. Just saying..
In regards to the 9A1 not proven to be durable to 'hardcore tracking', I would beg to differ. Sometimes the GT3 guys forget that there are other models out there at the track besides GT3s. Just to throw something into the pit, I will say that there is a certain rennlister here that drives a 987.2 boxster. He has put in 60+ track days in about 1.5 years. He runs lap times just as fast or faster than many GT3s on Hoosiers (legit drivers), and the car is essentially stock other than brake pads, lower LCAs, and R comp tires. No engine failures. For hardcore DE use, I'd say the engine holds up just fine.
In regards to the 9A1 not proven to be durable to 'hardcore tracking', I would beg to differ. Sometimes the GT3 guys forget that there are other models out there at the track besides GT3s. Just to throw something into the pit, I will say that there is a certain rennlister here that drives a 987.2 boxster. He has put in 60+ track days in about 1.5 years. He runs lap times just as fast or faster than many GT3s on Hoosiers (legit drivers), and the car is essentially stock other than brake pads, lower LCAs, and R comp tires. No engine failures. For hardcore DE use, I'd say the engine holds up just fine.
04-22-2013, 05:59 PM
#157
Nordschleife Master
Careful. Many of your fellow GT3 rennlisters drive with this particular driver. They are not slow. 
We are talking about the norcal bay area. This guy just happens to be particularly talented. My point was that this 987.2 is being properly driven to the absolute limit and the engine has held up after 60+ track days. I would think Peter could use this as a data point for the 9A1.
We are talking about the norcal bay area. This guy just happens to be particularly talented. My point was that this 987.2 is being properly driven to the absolute limit and the engine has held up after 60+ track days. I would think Peter could use this as a data point for the 9A1.
04-22-2013, 06:04 PM
#158
Rennlist Member
Yeah, we have GTS Cayman Boxters etc. running at Sebring.
Some PDK issues but not many.
There are variables, California drivers are slow if they get passed by a Boxter on Hoosiers or the track is very technical
Also depends how long you run. Like Rad's Fiat lasts because he keeps it alive by only running half the sessions half of the time. That way even a GTR wwill last.
I look at Sebring because it is particularly hard on cars, like Road America and guys running all sessions at 10/10th beginning to end, sometimes on open track days we emptied tank after tank with just a cool down lap before refueling.
Anyway, with BGB and plenty of fast DE cars, I concider the new engine pretty much proven in current condition, at 9000RPM, we will see.
Some PDK issues but not many.
There are variables, California drivers are slow if they get passed by a Boxter on Hoosiers or the track is very technical
Also depends how long you run. Like Rad's Fiat lasts because he keeps it alive by only running half the sessions half of the time. That way even a GTR wwill last.
I look at Sebring because it is particularly hard on cars, like Road America and guys running all sessions at 10/10th beginning to end, sometimes on open track days we emptied tank after tank with just a cool down lap before refueling.
Anyway, with BGB and plenty of fast DE cars, I concider the new engine pretty much proven in current condition, at 9000RPM, we will see.
04-22-2013, 06:11 PM
#159
Rennlist Member
I have been running my 991S w/PDK at Sebring, Daytona, Homestead for over a year with about 20 track days. Most days are at Sebring. The car is very fast and hearty, including brakes. Will be at COTA on June 8/9.
Love the new platform (prior 996 and Boxster Spyder) and am top of the list for GT3.
Love the new platform (prior 996 and Boxster Spyder) and am top of the list for GT3.
04-22-2013, 06:37 PM
#161
I have been running my 991S w/PDK at Sebring, Daytona, Homestead for over a year with about 20 track days. Most days are at Sebring. The car is very fast and hearty, including brakes. Will be at COTA on June 8/9.
Love the new platform (prior 996 and Boxster Spyder) and am top of the list for GT3.
Love the new platform (prior 996 and Boxster Spyder) and am top of the list for GT3.
mdrums, others; and data has validated the 9A1's ability to deliver the goods; performance and reliability. Why would a Ti rod, forged piston, 9k rev, built to racing spec gt3 9A1 prove any different? This engine will be the next racing engine.
04-22-2013, 06:38 PM
#163
Rennlist Member
I have been running my 991S w/PDK at Sebring, Daytona, Homestead for over a year with about 20 track days. Most days are at Sebring. The car is very fast and hearty, including brakes. Will be at COTA on June 8/9.
Love the new platform (prior 996 and Boxster Spyder) and am top of the list for GT3.
Love the new platform (prior 996 and Boxster Spyder) and am top of the list for GT3.
Do you know your laptimes?
What tires and pads do you run?
Curious how the new one compares to Mdrums GTS laptimes.
04-22-2013, 07:29 PM
#165
Nordschleife Master
I'm telling you, though, a lap time of 1:59 over the top at Thunderhill is crazy fast. There are only a tiny few GT3 drivers that are capable of matching or beating that kind of speed, and this guy did it with a boxster.