991.2 GT3RS Complete Engine Failure & PCNA Response
04-01-2021, 10:14 AM
#226
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Did Ollie pay cash for his car?
04-01-2021, 10:46 AM
#227
04-01-2021, 04:35 PM
#229
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Nice, I literally just signed my R43 contract with Flat six innovations, for my 997.
Am I headed there eventually (after warranty) with my GT3 too?
Dam, when I bought it, I thought I would own it for ever, now I’m wondering...
It is a manual, but I thought I read further up in the thread, that a manual had failed too.
Am I headed there eventually (after warranty) with my GT3 too?
Dam, when I bought it, I thought I would own it for ever, now I’m wondering...
It is a manual, but I thought I read further up in the thread, that a manual had failed too.
04-01-2021, 07:15 PM
#231
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04-02-2021, 12:03 AM
#232
Even if the car was brought to the dealer for service right on schedule it still has human involvement where an employee could’ve made a mistake that resulted in said failure. Everybody knows the dealership isn’t always flawless execution.
New to RL, somehow this thread sends me emails when there’s a new comment. Still easily tuning in though for anyone else to weigh in on other issues with their 991.2 .
04-02-2021, 07:16 AM
#233
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Originally Posted by oliver991
do you have a job? 23k posts... do you need cash? send me your Nigerian wiring info....
I PM'ed you my account number. Very generous. Thank you.
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oliver991 (04-03-2021)
04-02-2021, 11:36 AM
#235
I post here to educate and inform, not to scare. I post what I see and understand. What I do know is human nature too. I have been on this planet standing upright for many years and know that when you own something you will defend your purchase, often dismissing what you hear. I do the same.
I have been in the engine business for many years. I was privileged to be able to spend many years involved in the highest level of Motorsport where failures were not accepted. As Mr Gene Kranz said perfectly, "Failure is not an option".
An engine is a mechanical thing. Its not human and cannot change its mind or use logic. If it fails, it fails for a reason. Either internally influenced or externally influenced. Today's engines are difficult to influence externally with all the safety functions built into the electronic control. There are many reasons why 1 engine fails before another. But 1 failure should be a red flag warning to the OE of others that could. But unfortunately, this is often never the case. Warranties are great to have until they run out. My issue is this, during the warranty time any failure should be corrected. Corrected, not just replaced. What then after the warranty period is over?
Who pays then? Maybe then your prescription of a Xanac would be a good idea.
I have been in the engine business for many years. I was privileged to be able to spend many years involved in the highest level of Motorsport where failures were not accepted. As Mr Gene Kranz said perfectly, "Failure is not an option".
An engine is a mechanical thing. Its not human and cannot change its mind or use logic. If it fails, it fails for a reason. Either internally influenced or externally influenced. Today's engines are difficult to influence externally with all the safety functions built into the electronic control. There are many reasons why 1 engine fails before another. But 1 failure should be a red flag warning to the OE of others that could. But unfortunately, this is often never the case. Warranties are great to have until they run out. My issue is this, during the warranty time any failure should be corrected. Corrected, not just replaced. What then after the warranty period is over?
Who pays then? Maybe then your prescription of a Xanac would be a good idea.
04-02-2021, 01:05 PM
#236
Yeah Xanax or maybe Clonopin for longer lasting chill. And what is the point of saying “one failure is a failure”? Yep. True.... You could also say one failure was a learning experience. Or..,,One failure is really aggravating! Yep. That too. And...there are 100% 1 off failures of anything including of course complex engines and especially engines that have unknown human use that certainly could contribute to a unique failure. Id also say though if 20,000 engines are produced and 6 fail and have the same failure, in my opinion that still qualifies as “1 off”.
Even if the car was brought to the dealer for service right on schedule it still has human involvement where an employee could’ve made a mistake that resulted in said failure. Everybody knows the dealership isn’t always flawless execution.
New to RL, somehow this thread sends me emails when there’s a new comment. Still easily tuning in though for anyone else to weigh in on other issues with their 991.2 .
Even if the car was brought to the dealer for service right on schedule it still has human involvement where an employee could’ve made a mistake that resulted in said failure. Everybody knows the dealership isn’t always flawless execution.
New to RL, somehow this thread sends me emails when there’s a new comment. Still easily tuning in though for anyone else to weigh in on other issues with their 991.2 .
This is interesting:
“Yeah Xanax or maybe Clonopin for longer lasting chill. And what is the point of saying “one failure is a failure”? Yep. True.... You could also say one failure was a learning experience. Or..,,One failure is really aggravating! Yep. That too. And...there are 100% 1 off failures of anything including of course complex engines and especially engines that have unknown human use that certainly could contribute to a unique failure. Id also say though if 20,000 engines are produced and 6 fail and have the same failure, in my opinion that still qualifies as “1 off”. “
In Quality Assurance (QA), MTBF (mean time before failure) is the governing parameter, and different products/markets/businesses etc. have a different acceptable threshold for MTBF.
MTBF is actually infinite when there have been zero failures in any sample size.
As soon as 1 single failure occurs, the MTBF goes from infinite to a very very finite number (exactly the cumulative total number of hours of operation of the entire sample size).
Furthermore, you quote failures in 20,000 engines. If we assume 10k miles per year for 2 years for all 20,000 engines at an average speed of 60mph, I think my “back of the envelope” calculation (I really should use Excel instead of my Apple Watch), shows the MTBF would be about 2000 miles. I’ve probably made a mistake in my math, but the point I’m getting at, is that 6 in 20,000 is a very significant failure rate.
I should dig out my Arhenious calculating spreadsheet (from a previous life), then I can really sound like a proper fool.
Last edited by 997gr8; 04-02-2021 at 03:10 PM.
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oliver991 (04-03-2021)
04-03-2021, 12:46 AM
#237
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A tear down or two is not a trend, failures are calculated into most manufacturing processes. It’s called risk management, part of cost analysis, or QA per above, just as dealer responses are enacted in a purposeful manner. OP was not referring to the sophistication of F1, but production based cars. One who has had “many years involved in the highest level” would know that. The world is not ending, the .2 3RS build or engineering process has yet to be proven having a significant problem. Contributors constructive input is what counts and we’re looking for. I have no skin in the game, glad to have read all the input, but expounding about experience or maybe looking for business not so much. Humility goes a long way. Maybe one should have a beer and not purport to be all knowing in human nature or engineering. Looking forward to a great 3RS ride when I find it, appreciate this threads background.
Last edited by nolimits; 04-03-2021 at 01:01 AM.
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04-04-2021, 06:41 AM
#238
I post here to educate and inform, not to scare. I post what I see and understand. What I do know is human nature too. I have been on this planet standing upright for many years and know that when you own something you will defend your purchase, often dismissing what you hear. I do the same.
I have been in the engine business for many years. I was privileged to be able to spend many years involved in the highest level of Motorsport where failures were not accepted. As Mr Gene Kranz said perfectly, "Failure is not an option".
An engine is a mechanical thing. Its not human and cannot change its mind or use logic. If it fails, it fails for a reason. Either internally influenced or externally influenced. Today's engines are difficult to influence externally with all the safety functions built into the electronic control. There are many reasons why 1 engine fails before another. But 1 failure should be a red flag warning to the OE of others that could. But unfortunately, this is often never the case. Warranties are great to have until they run out. My issue is this, during the warranty time any failure should be corrected. Corrected, not just replaced. What then after the warranty period is over?
Who pays then? Maybe then your prescription of a Xanac would be a good idea.
I have been in the engine business for many years. I was privileged to be able to spend many years involved in the highest level of Motorsport where failures were not accepted. As Mr Gene Kranz said perfectly, "Failure is not an option".
An engine is a mechanical thing. Its not human and cannot change its mind or use logic. If it fails, it fails for a reason. Either internally influenced or externally influenced. Today's engines are difficult to influence externally with all the safety functions built into the electronic control. There are many reasons why 1 engine fails before another. But 1 failure should be a red flag warning to the OE of others that could. But unfortunately, this is often never the case. Warranties are great to have until they run out. My issue is this, during the warranty time any failure should be corrected. Corrected, not just replaced. What then after the warranty period is over?
Who pays then? Maybe then your prescription of a Xanac would be a good idea.
My current .2 RS has around 10,000 race kilometers on it (mix of liaison and special stages) and- it is currently stripped on a 42 point jig and having a full rebuild. Meanwhile the engine isn't being touched
The current engine which sits in very slightly different forms in the 991.2 GT3, RSR, 991.2 GT3 RS, 992 GT3 and 992 Cup has been remarkably free from problems - thats a lot of engine hours, thats what you get when you purchase a vehicle with, at the time, the most expensive engine ever put in large scale production cars.
Its simple with the good Porsche engines (if used hard) - fluids, fluids, fluids and refresh engine every 50 hours or so (same for gear box).
Last edited by groundhog; 04-04-2021 at 06:58 AM.
04-04-2021, 04:22 PM
#239
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I have been in the engine business for many years. I was privileged to be able to spend many years involved in the highest level of Motorsport where failures were not accepted. As Mr Gene Kranz said perfectly, "Failure is not an option".
An engine is a mechanical thing. Its not human and cannot change its mind or use logic. If it fails, it fails for a reason. Either internally influenced or externally influenced. Today's engines are difficult to influence externally with all the safety functions built into the electronic control. There are many reasons why 1 engine fails before another. But 1 failure should be a red flag warning to the OE of others that could. But unfortunately, this is often never the case. Warranties are great to have until they run out. My issue is this, during the warranty time any failure should be corrected. Corrected, not just replaced. What then after the warranty period is over?
Who pays then? Maybe then your prescription of a Xanac would be a good idea.