991.2 GT3RS Complete Engine Failure & PCNA Response
.. I don't have a horse in the race but seemingly 99% of people on this board would disagree. I would be intrigued as to why you fall into the 1% camp.
03-15-2021, 12:39 PM
#167
Three Wheelin'
At some point owners will be on their own without warranty. The engine will either prove reliably fixable, at whatever cost, or it won’t. The idea of “design flaw” didn’t enter the 911 discussion over the decades when failing case studs, chain tensioners, air boxes, and sand castings were part and parcel of 911 “evolution”. Improvements were made and many were retrofittable to earlier units. This has allowed many 911s to remain in reliable service. The only truly troubling trend, IMHO, is the modern solution to replace, rather than repair, entire engines and transmissions. That will not prove practical for long term ownership and will doom many cars to the junkyard prematurely. I commend all the efforts to tear down the engine and seek solutions for repair.
03-15-2021, 01:38 PM
#168
Race Car
Like I stated, all can do is to show what I have seen. But each engine had 100% the same failure. No rant here from me. Just photographic facts. Make of that as you wish. As for lash caps coming off, that should NEVER happen. Something is wrong if this happens.
I come from the Motorsports world and those engines ran a lot more RPM and never had lash cap issues. I come from the world where when something breaks or is wrong I fix it. In motorsport, you never left anything to chance. 1 failure was 1 failure too many.
My sarcastic mind thinks here, you are stuck on the side of the road late one rainy night and you turn to your passenger and say. statistically this should not have happened".
I come from the Motorsports world and those engines ran a lot more RPM and never had lash cap issues. I come from the world where when something breaks or is wrong I fix it. In motorsport, you never left anything to chance. 1 failure was 1 failure too many.
My sarcastic mind thinks here, you are stuck on the side of the road late one rainy night and you turn to your passenger and say. statistically this should not have happened".
That said, these engines are Motorsport derived, as in RSR and Cup car. What percentage have failed and had they been maintained properly? So many other possibilities aside from a design flaw here. If it’s 0.4% have failed or some other very low qty, that is not a design flaw IMHO.
And as far as blaming it on quick shifts of PDK? C’mon, the GTS and Turbo S shift damn near as quick, probably small number of microseconds delta.
03-15-2021, 02:16 PM
#169
Burning Brakes
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Some states have a statutory letter you must send to make a diminished value property damage claim.
I would check on-line or with a DV PD attorney in your state area to find out.
I would check on-line or with a DV PD attorney in your state area to find out.
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oliver991 (03-15-2021)
03-15-2021, 03:08 PM
#170
Instructor
Who drives their GT3 in the rain? Lol
That said, these engines are Motorsport derived, as in RSR and Cup car. What percentage have failed and had they been maintained properly? So many other possibilities aside from a design flaw here. If it’s 0.4% have failed or some other very low qty, that is not a design flaw IMHO.
And as far as blaming it on quick shifts of PDK? C’mon, the GTS and Turbo S shift damn near as quick, probably small number of microseconds delta.
That said, these engines are Motorsport derived, as in RSR and Cup car. What percentage have failed and had they been maintained properly? So many other possibilities aside from a design flaw here. If it’s 0.4% have failed or some other very low qty, that is not a design flaw IMHO.
And as far as blaming it on quick shifts of PDK? C’mon, the GTS and Turbo S shift damn near as quick, probably small number of microseconds delta.
The 991.1 GT3 Cup motor was a Mezger, not the motor in the production GT3.
The GT cars shift faster and harder than the non-GT cars. You can reflash the PDK in the non-GT cars to get them closer, but stock they are not close, in my experience.
Last edited by bsquare; 03-15-2021 at 03:14 PM.
03-15-2021, 03:37 PM
#171
Three Wheelin'
Does anyone know what valve train differences the cup car engines run or the RSR cars? Perhaps you could contact Porsche Motorsports USA to see if they run different valve train (valve lash adjusters?) components....just a thought. I feel your pain but I don't really see a good legal remedy for you, as they did give you a new engine. Perhaps if you get an attorney to send a letter requesting the longer warranty PCNA may compromise.
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oliver991 (03-15-2021)
03-15-2021, 08:38 PM
#172
At some point owners will be on their own without warranty. The engine will either prove reliably fixable, at whatever cost, or it won’t. The idea of “design flaw” didn’t enter the 911 discussion over the decades when failing case studs, chain tensioners, air boxes, and sand castings were part and parcel of 911 “evolution”. Improvements were made and many were retrofittable to earlier units. This has allowed many 911s to remain in reliable service. The only truly troubling trend, IMHO, is the modern solution to replace, rather than repair, entire engines and transmissions. That will not prove practical for long term ownership and will doom many cars to the junkyard prematurely. I commend all the efforts to tear down the engine and seek solutions for repair.
03-16-2021, 12:51 AM
#173
Race Car
I have winters on my RS and drive it in the snow. They aren't fragile museum pieces, they are meant to be driven.
The 991.1 GT3 Cup motor was a Mezger, not the motor in the production GT3.
The GT cars shift faster and harder than the non-GT cars. You can reflash the PDK in the non-GT cars to get them closer, but stock they are not close, in my experience.
The 991.1 GT3 Cup motor was a Mezger, not the motor in the production GT3.
The GT cars shift faster and harder than the non-GT cars. You can reflash the PDK in the non-GT cars to get them closer, but stock they are not close, in my experience.
I agree the GT cars shift from gear to gear faster than say a C2S, but I'd like to see what the actual difference is, because if in Sport mode in a C2S or GTS, I don't think it's much at all.
03-16-2021, 12:56 AM
#175
Instructor
Who drives their GT3 in the rain? Lol
That said, these engines are Motorsport derived, as in RSR and Cup car. What percentage have failed and had they been maintained properly? So many other possibilities aside from a design flaw here. If it’s 0.4% have failed or some other very low qty, that is not a design flaw IMHO.
And as far as blaming it on quick shifts of PDK? C’mon, the GTS and Turbo S shift damn near as quick, probably small number of microseconds delta.
That said, these engines are Motorsport derived, as in RSR and Cup car. What percentage have failed and had they been maintained properly? So many other possibilities aside from a design flaw here. If it’s 0.4% have failed or some other very low qty, that is not a design flaw IMHO.
And as far as blaming it on quick shifts of PDK? C’mon, the GTS and Turbo S shift damn near as quick, probably small number of microseconds delta.
03-16-2021, 05:43 PM
#176
I’m all for enjoying these cars for as many miles as I possibly can but I disagree about snow/rain comment. If you ever kept a car long enough and spend some time under the car, you will know regardless of make/model, they will all start developing rust beginning with bolts and nuts and then things like suspension components and differential mount points. To each his own but the rust is disgusting and it bothers me. Salt makes this much worse. Once water starts getting into places that cannot dry easily, you are done. I dont care top of the car getting wet. You can wash/polish water spots no problem. But you cant do the same to the underside.
03-16-2021, 11:58 PM
#177
Three Wheelin'
You have assumed wrongly on both counts. I have a 991.2 GT3. The owners manual only offered explicit track warranty on the 2014 model year GT3 and not later years. All later years specifically state that track driving is not covered by warranty (but it is commonly covered anyway under dealer goodwill or looking the other way).
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oliver991 (03-16-2021)
03-17-2021, 12:21 AM
#178
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
They do it, but it’s discretionary. Not legally required. Read your manual’s warranty exclusions...