kart driver

It is evident that the car doesn’t make a driver being fast. It’s the opposite. That is not even a question.

And I presume when we mention 911 cup car drivers we are not talking of those folks, who just jumped directly from their offices to 911 cup having passed all the previous necessary steps. I would not even call those folks 911 cup drivers ))


All I meant was that 911 cup is in a different league. And if you want to drive 911 cup really fast, you definitely need some skills as this is a serious machine.

D1ESEL

I have a 991.1 GT3 currently.

I will probably upgrade to a 991.2 RS as I feel I would be "missing out" if I went with a 991.1 RS.

ipse dixit

Yes, definitely worth 50k to upgrade.

GT3 KSA

for $20k delta def. go with the .2 over the .1

FogCitySF

97% of the performance for 75% of the .2 price and whatever you feel is the value of the relative aesthetics. If really chasing lap times get springs ($800), Tarrett arms, spherical bushings everywhere (including RWS) for $6k and DSC ($1,300) to get 99.5% of the performance at 79% of the price.

groundhog

Actually its a lot cheaper to put on a set of 3Rs, Trofeo Rs, or Cup 2Rs

The reality is there are a lot of differences, engine, PDK-S calibration, aero, amount of variable toe through RAS, you forgot the sway bars and brake cooling - point to note the spring rates are very different so you'll have to change the shock absorbers to if you want to do it right.

GT3 KSA

Motor Trend, Porsche Collector Jeff Cherun's Top Four 991 Models:

Jeff Cherun is a former hi-fi audio journalist and serious Porsche collector living in Los Angeles but originally from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. When I first met Jeff, he began telling me about some of his P-cars. I stopped him and said, 'What, do you have a warehouse stuffed with Porsches?' He replied, 'No, I have an airplane hangar stuffed with Porsches.' We've been best car buds ever since, and I figured getting an owner to weigh in on the pantheon of 991s would prove educational. Here is his list, as well as comments about his cars:

911 R: The 911R is Porsche's modern hot rod, a raw, fun, manual screamer. Not great for date night, as it is very loud with so much insulation removed, but great for a Sunday morning solo jaunt up the Pacific Coast Highway. The manual transmission is sublime.

991 GT2 RS: A maniacal automotive locomotive that needs to be pushed to really be appreciated (and scare the driver). This is best enjoyed on your favorite on-ramp--it's all instant velocity and blurred scenery.

991 Speedster: A cruiser and a convertible with carbon-fiber bodywork aplenty, coupled with a superb manual transmission and the fabulous GT3 engine. It can be a great weekend getaway car or a nice "summer cruise to dinner with the wife" car. The perfect California open-top car.

991.1 GT3 RS: This is a PDK-equipped, Porsche RS marvel, with a slightly softer and compliant suspension than the 991.2 version. This is a favorite for canyon drives on the weekends. Love the raw sports-car sounds, which are sure to make any occupant and passersby smile.

FogCitySF

DSC modeled the PASM shocks, with the controller are enough to deal with higher spring rate. Sways you can keep soft (MR never switched out sways in their .1 MR version). Aero at most would be the diffuser $(500) for minimal gain. MR said the front block removal of .2 made no difference in the front downforce even on the N-ring. The rest (brake cooling, slightly more powerful engine) is probably good for the .5% out of the 100% and equal tires would likely make no practical difference in lap times for most amateurs. Though going down that route is literally splitting hairs and only if you want to eek out every tenth (chasing lap times). It's a compelling performance proposition for that purpose only.

groundhog

(a) Modelled and reality are two different things - theres a big ,in fact huge difference in spring rates - an increase of 55Nm on the front and 40Nm on the rear - plus there are helper springs on the front of the .2 RS
(b) The sway bars are softer on the .2 RS which stops the push over onto the edge of the tires under hard corning and gives better breakaway when it does occur - in fact the overall set up is much closer to a cup car
(c) Aero - you have forgotten about the Naca ducts which have multiple benefits and work with the under body airflow and rear diffuser, and brake cooling - plus the vents on the arches are bigger
(d) The engine is a different engine (very different) while the torque and HP gains are modest 10Nm and 20PS - features such as the improved oiling and reduced oil pressures are almost incalculable in terms of engine long term performance
(e) PDK-S tune and PTV-E linkage I'm sure someone could come up with a kluge fix for that
(f) Increased rear toe through RAS - more slip angle - again given you only have 4% to play with anything here is a big deal to in terms of corner stability, speed and grip. Again Im sure someone could come up with a kluge fix for that but to make it work seamlessly with the PTV-E and PDK-S is another matter.

On the same tires theres a 1 to 2 seconds minute difference - moreover the .2 is more stable when its doing that

If performance is your thing go for the .2 every time, its a better base to work from as well. If you don't care about reliable performance then none of this matters.

Cay_PI

To a and b I can say, the stock .1 Dampers can easily handle the stiffer springs. You need about 60% current to the shocks to have it settled. the Stock PASM Sport mode is a bit above that (totally overdamped with stock springs) and works very well with the hard springs. All the fast cars with aftermarket suspension (Manthey & co.) use stock sway bars on the .1 and they set it to stiff mode in the front some times!

Its not like I would say you can easily copy the perfect tuned suspension of the .2 RS but you can come very close with the springs.

Waxer

Why the sarcasm? I know it is but he may not.

Whats “worth it” is subjective in most cases unless specific needs are involved.

groundhog

Going back to the engine this is the list of differences I could come up with quickly excluding the most obvious hydraulics Vs shims

(1) 9000 RPM redline
(2) 470Nm and 520HP
(3) Stiffer crankshaft
(4) larger main bearing diameters
(5) centrally located oil feed
(6) new pistons and rings
(7) plasma coated cylinder liners
(8) wider and thicker con rod bearings
(9) dlc coated rocker arms
(10) new oil separator reducing foaming
(11) higher compression ratio ~13.3:1

Engine upgrades clearly designed to offer a high level of performance for longer - when you scratch any area of the .2 you see a lot of changes in fine detail.

If you start adding up all the changes there ends up being a lot.

QuickOne

I bought my .1 3RS used before the .2 was released. I’m a hard-core track guy and my car mainly sees track time. Suitably modded to do so as well.

I’m also one to generally want the latest and greatest thing, and am often found switching cars every 6-12 months. I haven’t found that to be the case with the .2 yet. Yes, all of the details/specs say the .2 is a better car, but I find that in real-world situations I don’t need it or miss it. Nor do I want to spend the effort to setup another car right now with all of the track mods.

When trying to win the HPDE Cup, I haven’t had a .2 car that was faster than I am - at least not where I felt like it was car and not driver.

All that is to say if you’re not tracking the car, the differences are so small that it’s really more about creature comforts, color and what feels “right” to you. Even if you are tracking the car, it’s more about driver than it is machine - unless you’re trying to race competitively.

If I were to buy freshly today - I’d buy the .2 just to have the latest and greatest. And the PCM sucks in the .1.

Waxer

Great list. Yes a lot of improvements. “Worth it” for x $ is still a personal call. It was to me and I don’t track my RS.

Psup4s

This is a great starting point and when you add the aesthetics it is worth it to me. I never drove a .1 and to be honest I never considered it but have talked to a few people who have been exposed to both models and all say the .2 is superior.
Drive both cars and see ifs worth the upgrade it, either way you will be very happy.