Need some advices on Touring value
#1
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Hello all. Does a touring still justify $15K above the MSRP ($169K)? Around 1000 miles, CPO'd, bucket seats, no PCCB and the color is white. Thanks!
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GT2Driver (07-03-2021)
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02-25-2021, 12:18 AM
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Interesting reading this thread after what is happening lately with the Touring market. There is one on Autotrader for $240k. Best price I have found is $30k over sticker. In my opinion, the market is crazy right now and it will settle eventually. I was in the same boat a year ago, worrying that the economy was on the verge of collapse, and here we are with record prices being set on cars. I still believe that a big economic correction is coming and at that point prices will come back to reality. Any thoughts on this? Anybody looking to sell at MSRP?? ![](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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Market economics is always about supply and demand. There are MANY articles and reviews from highly-credible editors (like Car and Driver and Chris Harris) proclaiming the 991.2 GT3 manual and Touring the "GOAT/Greatest of all Time." That doesn't hurt the mystique and resulting demand at all. Then look at the fact that only about 25% of the 991.2 GT3s were spec'd as Tourings. "Why would I give up my free spoiler and alcantara for a leather steering wheel, cordura seats and a small electric spoiler with a Gurney Flap?" = Not much supply.
Those that own the winged cars say "The Touring package was just an option, otherwise it's just another GT3." Those without the wings say "I own a Touring." Believe me, we Touring owners consider it a different model and don't give a crap what the jealous folks who have wings say. In the US, there are about 2200 of the former and 730 of the latter - lower supply. ALL of the 730 Tourings are manuals and perhaps 1/3 of the wings are manuals. This leaves approx 1500 manual GOATS out there - at least for now. And, here's the main point, we are still several months away from taking deliveries of the 992 GT3. Plus the stock market is on air. And interest rates are ~zero. And everyone is still not traveling due to covid - which leaves lots of discretionary income out there in the hands of people who are desperately looking for maskless ways to entertain themselves away from crowds. (Please note that GT3's only have one passenger seat).
There were a little over 300 911Rs sold in the US - and they are AWESOME, special, numbered cars - which inspired the Tourings. And Rs are still trading for 2 - 2.5X MSRP - on the extremely rare occasions when they change hands. Arguably the closest thing Porsche has made to the R in the last two decades is the Touring - but the Touring has an indisputably better engine. With 2.5x as many Tourings out there as Rs, and with them being 2-3 years newer, the market hasn't yet stabilized on Tourings. But that's getting closer by the day - causing the upward trend as owners are deciding to hold them and the listings are tapering off. And obviously they aren't shipping any more Tourings - likely for at least 9-12 more months. And, IMO, Andreas Preuninger stumbled on his response to the 992 Touring question in the GT3 release announcement last week - leaving some serious ambiguity in the minds of many of us as to what they are thinking for the next version and when/if they will "get around" to releasing it.
Add this to the fact that Porsche has done something unprecedented in the latest GT3 release - materially re-engineered the car. This time, the GT cars will have a completely different double-wishbone front suspension from the standard 992's Macpherson struts. This is no longer a "parts bin" car. They spent mega Euros engineering these new pending GT cars. While I'm no means an expert, I believe they are going to need to sell the everloving hell out of the new 992 GT cars in order to capitalize on the latent demand and to recoup their engineering investment. It won't surprise me at all if they sell 15000 of them here over the next 4-5 years - and I predict that over 55% will be Tourings (or whatever they call it) and a large majority of all GT cars will be manuals. (Because everyone right now is looking at resale values of 991s and saying "I wish I bought a Touring or at least a manual").
All this above still hasn't mentioned one key fact. Driving a manual 991.2 GT3, using the no-lift-shift feature, shifting from 2-3 or 3-4 at the 9000 rpm redline and then downshifting under heavy braking using the auto rev-matching throttle blip is one of life's TRULY SUBLIME experiences if you are a real driving enthusiast. I've owned several and driven many cars and supercars and classic cars - from most marques (except notably Bugatti or McLaren) - and I have never had 1/5th as much FUN driving any of them as I have my 991.2 Touring. I probably shift three times as much as is really necessary because the sounds and feels are maniacally fun. If you haven't yet driven one of these, beg, borrow or steal in order to get the chance. But be fully prepared to be disappointed with every other car you drive afterwards...
Do I know where Touring (or manual GT3 winged) values will ultimately settle? Nope. And unfortunately, I've never been great at picking stocks either - which is probably why I don't have a barn full of manual 911/964/997's. But take a look at older sports cars - like Ferrari Maranellos, 599s and 430s or Porsches with tiptronics. The manual cars are worth massive premiums over the autos - due presumably to reliability, maintenance costs, and driver engagement.
If the stock market corrects soon and/or covid breaks and people resume spending discretionary funds on traveling, eating out and other social activities, I believe all sports cars, Florida vacation homes, Rolexes, center console boats and rare bourbon prices will flatten quickly and resume normal value curves. Failing that, I see no reason why these scarce, desirable, limited-volume toys will go down any time soon. Good luck with your decision!
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Bobby 911 (03-29-2020)
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#5
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no , this is not realistic in today's market .... No one can say for sure the actual value at present time , but you approach this in a logical way
the facts are we are heading into severe recession that is affecting the whole world that will last several months at best or even longer
there is a lot of uncertainty around .. look at the severe moves in the stock market up and down
when there is uncertainty , demand for luxury goods will decrease
the best way to find out roughly the current value , is call three dealers and give them vin number and see what are they willing to offer for the car , and then you can make a better judgement , but don't be surprised if couple of dealers will tell you that they are not accepting trade ins
I know it is not your car, but tell them that you are considering buying this car , and how much they will buy it from you tomorrow
the facts are we are heading into severe recession that is affecting the whole world that will last several months at best or even longer
there is a lot of uncertainty around .. look at the severe moves in the stock market up and down
when there is uncertainty , demand for luxury goods will decrease
the best way to find out roughly the current value , is call three dealers and give them vin number and see what are they willing to offer for the car , and then you can make a better judgement , but don't be surprised if couple of dealers will tell you that they are not accepting trade ins
I know it is not your car, but tell them that you are considering buying this car , and how much they will buy it from you tomorrow
#6
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Is the wing the only difference between the touring? It appears that GT3’s with a wing or selling below MSRP. Is being wingless really worth a 20k price delta?
Clearly many people do feel it is worth the difference driving demand to exceed supply. Ok by me, it is their money.
Clearly many people do feel it is worth the difference driving demand to exceed supply. Ok by me, it is their money.
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#9
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I think you left a few details out. For example, if you lead with... I found the car of my dreams, my exact preferred spec to include color and every option that I want then it changes the dynamics of your question. Because I would pay whatever I felt reasonable based on my research to get exactly what I wanted.
What exactly are you looking for?
What exactly are you looking for?
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Rand911c (05-18-2020)
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17bhub (03-28-2020)
#11
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cbrett (03-27-2020)
#13
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For what it is worth, I dropped by my dealer the other day to talk about purchasing another car and the sales manager said that my Touring is still 30k over, it is a low optioned car 158 MSRP. I told him he could have my 997.2 or the 911-50 but the Touring was not available 😎
#15
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I’ll sell my non PTS for $10k over. 🤣