Road America in GT2 RS & GT3 RS
04-30-2019, 10:13 PM
#167
Nordschleife Master
Really? Classy. Surprised. Expected more from you. Oh, well.
All this micro analysis over a simple proposition. TT 700 hp car with similar chassis to 520 hp car with same basic chassis is faster than the latter. What a shock.
What is a surprise, despite the OP's personal clear bias for the 2RS (which is irrelevant since personal preference like opinions are like you know what that everyone has) is that the GT3RS is more impressive pound for pound than the 2RS. Not only were the times very close at RA but what is obvious is that the 2RS clearly has an advantage on longer straights and RA is the perfect venue for the 2RS to exploit its power advantage. A given. What seems obvious from the data and other reviews and tests is that the 3RS is faster in the turns and can carry more speed. What has been ignored here is that RA is according to another post is at 1000 ft above sea level which means the 2RS has an even bigger advantage since at that altitude the NA car will suffer a 3 to 4% power loss. The TT car will not suffer a power loss. Put on mag wheels for the 3RS that the 2RS had I bet that spread drops to 1-2 seconds.
On shorter tracks at sea level I think Evo's data showed the 3RS is really nipping at the 2RS' heals.
Also, lets not lose sight that the 3RS eclipsed the 918's time at the Ring. Pretty damn impressive.
All this micro analysis over a simple proposition. TT 700 hp car with similar chassis to 520 hp car with same basic chassis is faster than the latter. What a shock.
What is a surprise, despite the OP's personal clear bias for the 2RS (which is irrelevant since personal preference like opinions are like you know what that everyone has) is that the GT3RS is more impressive pound for pound than the 2RS. Not only were the times very close at RA but what is obvious is that the 2RS clearly has an advantage on longer straights and RA is the perfect venue for the 2RS to exploit its power advantage. A given. What seems obvious from the data and other reviews and tests is that the 3RS is faster in the turns and can carry more speed. What has been ignored here is that RA is according to another post is at 1000 ft above sea level which means the 2RS has an even bigger advantage since at that altitude the NA car will suffer a 3 to 4% power loss. The TT car will not suffer a power loss. Put on mag wheels for the 3RS that the 2RS had I bet that spread drops to 1-2 seconds.
On shorter tracks at sea level I think Evo's data showed the 3RS is really nipping at the 2RS' heals.
Also, lets not lose sight that the 3RS eclipsed the 918's time at the Ring. Pretty damn impressive.
04-30-2019, 10:22 PM
#168
Really? Classy. LOL.
All this micro analysis over a simple proposition. TT 700 hp car with similar chassis to 520 hp car with same basic chassis is faster than the latter. What a shock.
What is a surprise, despite the OP's personal clear bias for the 2RS (which is irrelevant since personal preference like opinions are like you know what that everyone has) is that the GT3RS is more impressive pound for pound than the 2RS. Not only were the times very close at RA but what is obvious is that the 2RS clearly has an advantage on longer straights and RA is the perfect venue for the 2RS to exploit its power advantage. A given. What seems obvious from the data and other reviews and tests is that the 3RS is faster in the turns and can carry more speed. What has been ignored here is that RA is according to another post is at 1000 ft above sea level which means the 2RS has an even bigger advantage since at that altitude the NA car will suffer a 3 to 4% power loss. The TT car will not suffer a power loss. Put on mag wheels for the 3RS that the 2RS had I bet that spread drops to 1-2 seconds.
On shorter tracks at sea level I think Evo's data showed the 3RS is really nipping at the 2RS' heals.
All this micro analysis over a simple proposition. TT 700 hp car with similar chassis to 520 hp car with same basic chassis is faster than the latter. What a shock.
What is a surprise, despite the OP's personal clear bias for the 2RS (which is irrelevant since personal preference like opinions are like you know what that everyone has) is that the GT3RS is more impressive pound for pound than the 2RS. Not only were the times very close at RA but what is obvious is that the 2RS clearly has an advantage on longer straights and RA is the perfect venue for the 2RS to exploit its power advantage. A given. What seems obvious from the data and other reviews and tests is that the 3RS is faster in the turns and can carry more speed. What has been ignored here is that RA is according to another post is at 1000 ft above sea level which means the 2RS has an even bigger advantage since at that altitude the NA car will suffer a 3 to 4% power loss. The TT car will not suffer a power loss. Put on mag wheels for the 3RS that the 2RS had I bet that spread drops to 1-2 seconds.
On shorter tracks at sea level I think Evo's data showed the 3RS is really nipping at the 2RS' heals.
04-30-2019, 10:33 PM
#169
Rennlist Member
MDrums and I both DQ’d because of a stupid rule, LOL!! We had the closest guess, but broke the pit speed limit, ugh!
04-30-2019, 10:35 PM
#170
Rennlist Member
Bingo, that's what I hoped to hear. But it begs the ever elusive question: why is that? Chassis adjust-ability and rear wheel drive? An actual torque curve and the way the power rolls in? The chassis actually moving around due to a higher CG or polar moment?
Two cars that are similarly quick and yet the "better" one isn't as fun. It's a question that always fascinates because I suspect I'll never fully figure it out.
Two cars that are similarly quick and yet the "better" one isn't as fun. It's a question that always fascinates because I suspect I'll never fully figure it out.
I guess I could chip in and have a go too.
I have tracked a 918 extensively, over 1500km, 300+laps on my track Area 27. Another say 50 laps at Paul Ricard, 12 or so at Portimao, 5 at Weissach and a good 60 mins on ice drifting at Levi. (holding a slide in a 918 is pretty much the same as holding one in a Turbo S, and that says a lot to the electronics tuned by Porsche, as there is no physical connection between front drive and rear drive, it's all software, the Porsche quirk remains, where opposite lock is not needed to hold a slide)
Much less on the GT2RS, just 2 tourist days on the Ring and one session on the GP track. Soon that will change.
As Mr Stout have said, the 918 is clinical. I would put it clinically exciting. Until the GT2RS came around, I have never been in a car that picks up speed so effortlessly. I don't find the brakes funny at all, in fact it's very predictable when I brake like in Cup car, hard firm initial press, then moderate it back out, trailing a bit into turn ins. In the 918, I always know there is a full hosts of computers helping me, and the drive from the front wheel bails me out most of the time. It's fun for me now that I know the car quite intimately, I know how much I can lean on it before it bites me, probing a sleeping house cat, it might scratch and bite me but it won't kill me.
As for the GT2RS, it's fun comes from being a 911, most here knows how a 911 handles, and being a RWD 911 it carries the same trait, very responsive to weight shift front and back. Making a 911 dance to one's throttle is extremely fun. Honestly I have to say it picks up speed even faster than a 918, I had been spoiled by the 918's acceleration and not easily impressed, but the GT2RS blow me away. It is just ferocious no matter the speed. While there are also loads of electronics in the car helping the driver, it is in the end only a RWD 911, there is no front drive to pull me out of trouble. Getting bitten by the car is always in the back of my mind, and I think that's what make it fun, probing a sleeping tiger to see when he wakes up and kill me.
Having said all that, a 918 doesn't quite like being manhandled, it demand smoothness, while the GT2RS actually prefers one to be a tad rough I think. Needs more seat time to confirm.
04-30-2019, 10:44 PM
#172
Nordschleife Master
This debate just continues. It's comical really. As I've said and will continue to say as the numbers pile up.....How many track records does the GT3RS hold. The GT2RS has amassed so many it's hard to keep up. I think it's around 10 or more now. I seems like it secures a new record every couple of weeks lately. It's the most potent a** kicking street-car 911 of all time, period.
When you say the 2RS is more "potent"... yes in absolute terms with professional drivers I agree if we are talking about fastest lap times. I'm sure Estre, Piilet, Bamber etc... could all lay down faster times in a 2RS than a 3RS on most tracks. Yup. But "potent" is a relative term. Are we talking performance for the dollar? Are we talking performance delivered based on specs in relative terms? Also, in the end these are not "race" cars. Let's not delude ourselves here. They are street cars maximized for track performance. The fact is the 3RS for the vast majority of owners/drivers is more approachable for DE's. More can extract its maximum potential or get closer to the maximum potential of a 3RS and I believe and a number of reviewers, if I recall made the same point. Further this is borne here in a number of posts that at various track days where there have been 2RS's and 3RS's the fastest times of the day were set by 3RS's. So...which is more potent up for debate. When one car allows you and I (not Estre, Bamber etc..). to extract its maximum performance or get close to it's limits and turn faster laps or run with than another car with 170hp more which is more potent now? We haven't even gotten to the more visceral nature of the 3RS yet.
There was a thread here documenting a 3RS trailing a 2RS at Spa at a DE and the performance difference in real world terms at a DE in the hands of mortals . Yes, the 2RS pulled away on straights. No surprise. What was fascinating was how the 3RS pilot reeled the 2RS back in in the turns. Point proven. Both seemed equally potent in that video.
Not knocking the 2RS by any stretch. Just pointing out that which is more potent is up for debate depending on context.
Last edited by Waxer; 04-30-2019 at 11:02 PM.
04-30-2019, 10:46 PM
#173
Nordschleife Master
04-30-2019, 10:54 PM
#174
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
04-30-2019, 11:03 PM
#175
Nordschleife Master
05-01-2019, 12:22 AM
#177
Yes. Whether comical or not the debate continues and why not? Yes, the 2RS holds a number of track records. Very impressive indeed. Stipulated. However, the fact that the 3RS puts down times as close as it does at RA with a 170hp and 140 ft/tq disadvantage it has and with no mag wheels and a 1000 ft. altitude handicap makes the 3RS more impressive in my book. You obviously disagree. Then factor in the $150K price difference.
When you say the 2RS is more "potent"... yes in absolute terms with professional drivers I agree if we are talking about fastest lap times. I'm sure Estre, Piilet, Bamber etc... could all lay down faster times in a 2RS than a 3RS on most tracks. Yup. But "potent" is a relative term. Are we talking performance for the dollar? Are we talking performance delivered based on specs in relative terms? Also, in the end these are not "race" cars. Let's not delude ourselves here. They are street cars maximized for track performance. The fact is the 3RS for the vast majority of owners/drivers is more approachable for DE's. More can extract its maximum potential or get closer to the maximum potential of a 3RS and I believe and a number of reviewers, if I recall made the same point. Further this is borne here in a number of posts that at various track days where there have been 2RS's and 3RS's the fastest times of the day were set by 3RS's. So...which is more potent up for debate. When one car allows you and I (not Estre, Bamber etc..). to extract its maximum performance or get close to it's limits and turn faster laps or run with than another car with 170hp more which is more potent now? We haven't even gotten to the more visceral nature of the 3RS yet.
There was a thread here documenting a 3RS trailing a 2RS at Spa at a DE and the performance difference in real world terms at a DE in the hands of mortals . Yes, the 2RS pulled away on straights. No surprise. What was fascinating was how the 3RS pilot reeled the 2RS back in in the turns. Point proven. Both seemed equally potent in that video.
Not knocking the 2RS by any stretch. Just pointing out that which is more potent is up for debate depending on context.
When you say the 2RS is more "potent"... yes in absolute terms with professional drivers I agree if we are talking about fastest lap times. I'm sure Estre, Piilet, Bamber etc... could all lay down faster times in a 2RS than a 3RS on most tracks. Yup. But "potent" is a relative term. Are we talking performance for the dollar? Are we talking performance delivered based on specs in relative terms? Also, in the end these are not "race" cars. Let's not delude ourselves here. They are street cars maximized for track performance. The fact is the 3RS for the vast majority of owners/drivers is more approachable for DE's. More can extract its maximum potential or get closer to the maximum potential of a 3RS and I believe and a number of reviewers, if I recall made the same point. Further this is borne here in a number of posts that at various track days where there have been 2RS's and 3RS's the fastest times of the day were set by 3RS's. So...which is more potent up for debate. When one car allows you and I (not Estre, Bamber etc..). to extract its maximum performance or get close to it's limits and turn faster laps or run with than another car with 170hp more which is more potent now? We haven't even gotten to the more visceral nature of the 3RS yet.
There was a thread here documenting a 3RS trailing a 2RS at Spa at a DE and the performance difference in real world terms at a DE in the hands of mortals . Yes, the 2RS pulled away on straights. No surprise. What was fascinating was how the 3RS pilot reeled the 2RS back in in the turns. Point proven. Both seemed equally potent in that video.
Not knocking the 2RS by any stretch. Just pointing out that which is more potent is up for debate depending on context.
05-01-2019, 12:25 AM
#178
Race Director
Y’all are keeping me awake tonight! LOL
The real test comparison with these 2 cars would be to do these same type of laps at various tracks around the country. I’d like to add the GT3 to the mix...wonder what its delta would be against a RS?
They should go hit Watkins’s Glenn, VIR, Road Atlanta, Sebring, Daytona 24hr, COTA, Laguna, Sonoma...then compare the lap time delta’s and average them out. We all know the 2RS will be faster everywhere.
The real test comparison with these 2 cars would be to do these same type of laps at various tracks around the country. I’d like to add the GT3 to the mix...wonder what its delta would be against a RS?
They should go hit Watkins’s Glenn, VIR, Road Atlanta, Sebring, Daytona 24hr, COTA, Laguna, Sonoma...then compare the lap time delta’s and average them out. We all know the 2RS will be faster everywhere.
05-01-2019, 12:44 AM
#179
Y’all are keeping me awake tonight! LOL
The real test comparison with these 2 cars would be to do these same type of laps at various tracks around the country. I’d like to add the GT3 to the mix...wonder what its delta would be against a RS?
They should go hit Watkins’s Glenn, VIR, Road Atlanta, Sebring, Daytona 24hr, COTA, Laguna, Sonoma...then compare the lap time delta’s and average them out. We all know the 2RS will be faster everywhere.
The real test comparison with these 2 cars would be to do these same type of laps at various tracks around the country. I’d like to add the GT3 to the mix...wonder what its delta would be against a RS?
They should go hit Watkins’s Glenn, VIR, Road Atlanta, Sebring, Daytona 24hr, COTA, Laguna, Sonoma...then compare the lap time delta’s and average them out. We all know the 2RS will be faster everywhere.
