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You will simply destroy the sidewalls - the advice you got applies to track tires - MPSC2 are street tires, they are not race tires with heavy duty sidewalls. With Porsche you are best running 34f/36r hot on MPSC2N1 - you'll find its optimal. Just as Michelin recommend
Moving on, given this thread is clearly becoming an advert for a channel so I'll cut to the chase: 720s is a minimum of 2 seconds a minute quicker than the current GT3 when on P-Zero. The reality is, its on a different level to the GT3 - more akin to the GT2RS. If you put the 720s on PZC4 Corsa which are about the same as MPSC2 the gap widens - considerably.
To highlight how different these cars are - I have pulled together a simple graph (real data).
You have to keep one thing in mind - the Mclaren in stock form comes with P Zeros which aren't that great for track use - they are capable of one or two quick laps and even then they haven't got a particularly good sidewall - so under hard cornering they can feel a little skittish. In a straight line its night and day its not even close see graph.
I'm surprised this wasn't noted - its one of the most obvious things you notice when you get in a 720S - put your foot down and it just keeps on going and going and going. The other obvious thing you notice is the suspension - its fantastic - can't say enough good things about it.
I really am a great fan of what Porsche do but as an enthusiast with no cars to sell or website to market - the 720s is about as good as it gets, put the cars on the same tires or at least equivalent and then tell it as it is.
But can you make a pie chart about McLarens unable to finish track days in relation to why there are so few on track and the depreciation as well?
The a flow chart of all the models with the same basic components since the MP12 and how the models are held back with a tune and tires?
But can you make a pie chart about McLarens unable to finish track days in relation to why there are so few on track and the depreciation as well?
The a flow chart of all the models with the same basic components since the MP12 and how the models are held back with a tune and tires?
Michelin’s pressure recommendation is pure CYA.
No, I don't have any meaningful experience with the older models - only the 720S. The reason you don't see more on track is probably largely related to lack of dealerships/parts/cost/insurance. I wavered for a long time, had allocation games with P (swapped to a 718 GT4), looked at a 488 Spyder but couldn't make it work and took a bit of a punt, plus signed up for a long wait and am happy with the outcome. Its not my number 1 go to car, however its very special and I use it mostly for fun outings and general joy. My Porsches are my go to cars for track use and road rallying - never let me down, always fixable but nowhere near as quick as the 720. Its actually good to have something a bit different (at least for me).
I'm not sure what a flow chart would achieve, you could do the same for Porsche - models held back, the Cayman, base Carrera, Carrera S, GT4 etc same engine RS/ GT3, turbo/2RS etc. The 720S is not really held back, it is just shod with reasonably sensible road tires - you can change them for something more track worthy e.g. Trofeo Rs and PZC4 Corsa are available
In regard to Michelins recommendations all I can say is they work well for me. 32 hot on the rears, on 305s you can, or rather I can feel the sidewall give/roll at 1.6g, not every time but with sufficient frequency that its off putting
You will simply destroy the sidewalls - the advice you got applies to track tires - MPSC2 are street tires, they are not race tires with heavy duty sidewalls. With Porsche you are best running 34f/36r hot on MPSC2N1 - you'll find its optimal. Just as Michelin recommend
It's just my experience over 18 track days this season running two different blends of Michelin and the latest Dunlops. I'm well aware that Michelin recommends higher pressures, but it didn't work for me. Have not been able to find any factory recommendations for the Dunlops.
I was able to extract a 1:33.9 at Laguna my last time out running Dunlop Maxx 2s. Bone stock .1 RS with 260 lb driver and 3/4 tank of gas. On that lap, the onboard computer indicated 32 psi F/R.
It's just my experience over 18 track days this season running two different blends of Michelin and the latest Dunlops. I'm well aware that Michelin recommends higher pressures, but it didn't work for me. Have not been able to find any factory recommendations for the Dunlops.
I was able to extract a 1:33.9 at Laguna my last time out running Dunlop Maxx 2s. Bone stock .1 RS with 260 lb driver and 3/4 tank of gas. On that lap, the onboard computer indicated 32 psi F/R.
Wow, that's fast. No wonder I could not catch up last time at Laguna.
I also find 32psi about optimal (typically target 32 front 33 rear). But MPSC2 indeed have very soft sidewalls and with my conservative camber (-2.4 F and -2 R), and rear shoulders suffer, but even going to 35-36 rear with the same front pressure turns the car into a bucking bronco, which tells me rear grip is sacrificed. That's actually a neat trick I use to figure out optimal pressure for a new car/tire brand - get it to balanced handling and then change the pressure on one axle only. If that axle gets more grip - it's the right direction, so follow on the other axle. If it gets less grip, try going the other direction. Repeat until change in any direction is less grip rather than more.
I tried Pirelli Corsa 4, and they have much better sidewalls, so they work well at even lower pressures (31-32) and feel better in general, but they wear way too fast.
Literally terrified how much those tires will run....
I don’t see the tyres themselves being that much more expensive, after all the only change to the tyre is the inclusion of the vulcanised holder. The primary cost, and surely it is a one time item, is the kit for the four chips that fit in the tyre holders; the centralized sensor that communicates with those chips, plus the App. All of the later would simply move from old tyres to new?
I had PCCB on my GT4 - wore them out in 24 track days.
They gave me tremendous confidence.
Replaced with steel. As a $9k option, PCCB are kinda a deal because
replacement cost is up above $25k.
So check the box, wear them out on track, replace with steel.
Then I got a GT4 CS, and the steel brakes there are another level...
^^ This is INSANE! I couldn't get the PCCB's off of my car fast enough (I was not able to spec the car myself, just got lucky with an allocation last Fall)!
Took the PCCB's off, put them in a box, and installed the AP Racing Radi-cal big brake kit. This steel kit comes within 1 pound per corner of the PCCB setup and actually outperforms them...please reference the Apex thread on this forum.
Not to mention replacement rotors are a fraction of the cost of the Carbon Ceramics.
There's no way in hell I would check the box for PCCB's for tracking!! I do like PCCB's on my street cars because it helps keep the car clean due to limited brake dust. I never "spec" PCCB's but my street cars come "standard" with PCCB's.
11-04-2018, 02:43 AM
