GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing
09-16-2018, 08:55 PM
#1111
Rennlist Member
Should be in OT or other forum on RL at this point. Thought this was a technical forum. Does a moderator not look at this and move it? What happened with trackday experiences?
09-16-2018, 08:55 PM
#1112
Rennlist Member
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So far, of the posters in this thread that were involved with the fraudulent deposits, one has replied yesterday afternoon with little detail saying that he was contacted by Champion and offered what was apparently an adequate solution saying he cannot really discuss the matter any further at the present time. The others have not posted since yesterday morning. Their silence is very telling. I suppose they were also offered restitution +/- allocation at MSRP, but that is conjecture on my part.
09-16-2018, 08:56 PM
#1113
Rennlist Member
This is of course your opinion, just like everyone else that has an opinion and has posted. I am actually of the opposite opinion of yours and think this is great and hope the flames get fanned to a raging brush fire and expose every last person that is involved it this deposit, ADM, GT, Broker, dealer game. Maybe some good will come out from this and there will be things changed to stop this madness and expose these folks. Charge an ADM, don't charge an ADM I don't care but to do all this shady bs and having brokers, shell games, third parties etc etc involved just really makes the Porsche brand not look so good.
Dealer gets an allocation, they charge whatever the hell they want and buyer either buys it or doesn't, plain and simple. But to pay money to get on a list, jump someone else on the list if you offer more, sell ADM's that you don't even have, taking deposits for cars you don't even have, ALL SHADY.
Dealer gets an allocation, they charge whatever the hell they want and buyer either buys it or doesn't, plain and simple. But to pay money to get on a list, jump someone else on the list if you offer more, sell ADM's that you don't even have, taking deposits for cars you don't even have, ALL SHADY.
But, here's the thing: No matter how great your safe guards are, no matter how great a business plan you have, no matter how watchful the owner is, no matter how many "checks and balances" you have, if someone wants to steal money, they will find a way to do it and there isnt a darn thing anyone can do about it. Its purely a matter of mitigating the damage....and hoping its caught sooner than later.
To add one more thing, anyone that thinks sookrali was hoarding this $2.5 million and planning a great escape to India......I have serious doubts. Most crooks do not have a long term plan or a way out. They are just surviving day to day til the scheme unravels. And, in the end, there is no money left. A crook doesnt steal to "save" the money for retirement. A crook steals to survive in the moment. The vast majority of the time.
Regarding all the hub-ub about ADM's, brokers etc - to suggest that a salemans theft of customer deposits somehow reveals the flaws in Porsche's sales philosophy is absurd. The fact that these cars are so highly sought after and are worth more than MSRP (in most cases) is a testament to the great job porsche is doing. Again, even if porsche cracked down, as you suggest, on brokers and ADM, would only result in a different layer of brokers and adms. Flippers will always be flippers - if they get their hands on the car, even if on the secondary market (i.e. used), then you have the same issue. The solution is for porsche to stop building such great cars.....OR for the end user to refuse to pay in excess of MSRP - see how ridiculous that sounds. Neither of those will happen because we want a great product and the market will pay the value of that product
There. My opinion, worthless as it is, is out there.
09-16-2018, 08:57 PM
#1114
Banned
09-16-2018, 09:03 PM
#1116
Banned
Agree on opinions - everyone is entitled to one.
But, here's the thing: No matter how great your safe guards are, no matter how great a business plan you have, no matter how watchful the owner is, no matter how many "checks and balances" you have, if someone wants to steal money, they will find a way to do it and there isnt a darn thing anyone can do about it. Its purely a matter of mitigating the damage....and hoping its caught sooner than later.
.
But, here's the thing: No matter how great your safe guards are, no matter how great a business plan you have, no matter how watchful the owner is, no matter how many "checks and balances" you have, if someone wants to steal money, they will find a way to do it and there isnt a darn thing anyone can do about it. Its purely a matter of mitigating the damage....and hoping its caught sooner than later.
.
09-16-2018, 09:09 PM
#1117
Rennlist Member
You and I agree there - I do not know the details on the 911R case, but if there was reason for Champion to suspect Sookrali was dishonest from that ordeal, they should have had a much tighter reign on him (or should have cut ties with him). I just dont know enough about that particular case to opine.
09-16-2018, 09:28 PM
#1119
Agree on opinions - everyone is entitled to one.
But, here's the thing: No matter how great your safe guards are, no matter how great a business plan you have, no matter how watchful the owner is, no matter how many "checks and balances" you have, if someone wants to steal money, they will find a way to do it and there isnt a darn thing anyone can do about it. Its purely a matter of mitigating the damage....and hoping its caught sooner than later.
But, here's the thing: No matter how great your safe guards are, no matter how great a business plan you have, no matter how watchful the owner is, no matter how many "checks and balances" you have, if someone wants to steal money, they will find a way to do it and there isnt a darn thing anyone can do about it. Its purely a matter of mitigating the damage....and hoping its caught sooner than later.
No excuses, especially in our increasingly litigious society.
And in this particular case, there were not only NO SAFEGUARDS, but the dealership chose to continue to employ someone that raised red flags on several levels.
09-16-2018, 09:32 PM
#1120
Race Car
On the money here...pay these customers back immediately.
As an aside: these deposit quantities and lines that form for GT3's are ridiculous. I inquired about one last winter and was told 'it's tough to get an allocation' and then they want some crazy deposit put down. What a game this whole thing is. I ordered a Turbo instead and I'll take the 540 hp and AWD, thanks.
As an aside: these deposit quantities and lines that form for GT3's are ridiculous. I inquired about one last winter and was told 'it's tough to get an allocation' and then they want some crazy deposit put down. What a game this whole thing is. I ordered a Turbo instead and I'll take the 540 hp and AWD, thanks.
You're not stating anything obvious. In fact, what you're stating rather vaguely with, "a clear path to a commission number", means you'd probably never get an allocation at all at the majority of the dealers I've ever done business with.
Putting a deposit with the VP of the #1 GT sales guy at the #1 Porsche dealer in America seems like a "clear path" if he tells you you're going to get a car.
Let's not blame the victims here.
In my view Champion only has a short time to fix this before their reputation is completely destroyed. Pull out your pocket books and pay the guys your representative stole from with interest or your business is in trouble.
Putting a deposit with the VP of the #1 GT sales guy at the #1 Porsche dealer in America seems like a "clear path" if he tells you you're going to get a car.
Let's not blame the victims here.
In my view Champion only has a short time to fix this before their reputation is completely destroyed. Pull out your pocket books and pay the guys your representative stole from with interest or your business is in trouble.
09-16-2018, 09:41 PM
#1121
Rennlist Member
And how can you say there were no safeguards? Do you have some inside info? For example, lets say that Sookrali was not permitted by the dealership to take any deposits from any customers. But, instead, he set up a shell entity (which we think he did) and took customer deposits off book (which we think he did). You might not think the safe guard is adequate, but not allowing him to take any customer deposits is a safe guard. He just found a way around it.
I speculate that you are speculating and have no real info that there were no safeguards.
09-16-2018, 09:43 PM
#1122
On that you are correct. I am not cutting and pasting articles covering the same ground over and over trying to look the hero, nor am I slinging wild accusations about people without any facts to support them. If that's what makes Rennlist great, then you're right, I'm in the wrong place.
09-16-2018, 09:47 PM
#1123
09-16-2018, 09:53 PM
#1124
Drifting
Agree on opinions - everyone is entitled to one.
But, here's the thing: No matter how great your safe guards are, no matter how great a business plan you have, no matter how watchful the owner is, no matter how many "checks and balances" you have, if someone wants to steal money, they will find a way to do it and there isnt a darn thing anyone can do about it. Its purely a matter of mitigating the damage....and hoping its caught sooner than later.
To add one more thing, anyone that thinks sookrali was hoarding this $2.5 million and planning a great escape to India......I have serious doubts. Most crooks do not have a long term plan or a way out. They are just surviving day to day til the scheme unravels. And, in the end, there is no money left. A crook doesnt steal to "save" the money for retirement. A crook steals to survive in the moment. The vast majority of the time.
Regarding all the hub-ub about ADM's, brokers etc - to suggest that a salemans theft of customer deposits somehow reveals the flaws in Porsche's sales philosophy is absurd. The fact that these cars are so highly sought after and are worth more than MSRP (in most cases) is a testament to the great job porsche is doing. Again, even if porsche cracked down, as you suggest, on brokers and ADM, would only result in a different layer of brokers and adms. Flippers will always be flippers - if they get their hands on the car, even if on the secondary market (i.e. used), then you have the same issue. The solution is for porsche to stop building such great cars.....OR for the end user to refuse to pay in excess of MSRP - see how ridiculous that sounds. Neither of those will happen because we want a great product and the market will pay the value of that product
There. My opinion, worthless as it is, is out there.
But, here's the thing: No matter how great your safe guards are, no matter how great a business plan you have, no matter how watchful the owner is, no matter how many "checks and balances" you have, if someone wants to steal money, they will find a way to do it and there isnt a darn thing anyone can do about it. Its purely a matter of mitigating the damage....and hoping its caught sooner than later.
To add one more thing, anyone that thinks sookrali was hoarding this $2.5 million and planning a great escape to India......I have serious doubts. Most crooks do not have a long term plan or a way out. They are just surviving day to day til the scheme unravels. And, in the end, there is no money left. A crook doesnt steal to "save" the money for retirement. A crook steals to survive in the moment. The vast majority of the time.
Regarding all the hub-ub about ADM's, brokers etc - to suggest that a salemans theft of customer deposits somehow reveals the flaws in Porsche's sales philosophy is absurd. The fact that these cars are so highly sought after and are worth more than MSRP (in most cases) is a testament to the great job porsche is doing. Again, even if porsche cracked down, as you suggest, on brokers and ADM, would only result in a different layer of brokers and adms. Flippers will always be flippers - if they get their hands on the car, even if on the secondary market (i.e. used), then you have the same issue. The solution is for porsche to stop building such great cars.....OR for the end user to refuse to pay in excess of MSRP - see how ridiculous that sounds. Neither of those will happen because we want a great product and the market will pay the value of that product
There. My opinion, worthless as it is, is out there.
Agree with your post and hoping for timely resolution for those whom lost their deposits.
09-16-2018, 09:59 PM
#1125
Rennlist Member
I dont quite understand "risk management is risk management?" What do you mean?
And how can you say there were no safeguards? Do you have some inside info? For example, lets say that Sookrali was not permitted by the dealership to take any deposits from any customers. But, instead, he set up a shell entity (which we think he did) and took customer deposits off book (which we think he did). You might not think the safe guard is adequate, but not allowing him to take any customer deposits is a safe guard. He just found a way around it.
I speculate that you are speculating and have no real info that there were no safeguards.
And how can you say there were no safeguards? Do you have some inside info? For example, lets say that Sookrali was not permitted by the dealership to take any deposits from any customers. But, instead, he set up a shell entity (which we think he did) and took customer deposits off book (which we think he did). You might not think the safe guard is adequate, but not allowing him to take any customer deposits is a safe guard. He just found a way around it.
I speculate that you are speculating and have no real info that there were no safeguards.