GT3RS 991.2 Nurburgring....
02-23-2018 | 04:57 PM
#61
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 233
Likes: 18
From: Santa Monica, California
Yep. AP has been making a lot of comments about "cheater" tires, specifically aimed at Trofeo-R.....so magically now Michelin sells a more hardcore Cup 2 to compete with it. About time.
Between Manthey and Bilstein, they have the suspension and setup on point. Oddly enough, the spring rates from the Bilstein Clubsport suspension for the .1RS are the same as the .2RS OE spring rates. KW Race and Ohlins TTX suspensions also run very similar rates. Coincidence? I think not.
Between Manthey and Bilstein, they have the suspension and setup on point. Oddly enough, the spring rates from the Bilstein Clubsport suspension for the .1RS are the same as the .2RS OE spring rates. KW Race and Ohlins TTX suspensions also run very similar rates. Coincidence? I think not.
This ring time stuff is so out of hand - remember the GTR nonsense - no one could repeat the times...
02-23-2018 | 05:01 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 509
From: Germany/Austria
why is porsche always the company who gives us the stuff we want. MT, NA (give a sht on 0-200 times as long they stay NA), race chassis
and in the same time all the fancy blingbling owners will be a bit pissed. are not enjoying their cars. MT is not so cool driving it. 80/160 ??? Nm or really double which comes to 90/240 springs
( 45/120 std on .1 and .2 GT3 also on .1GT3RS?) anyhow.. way to firm, no power (compared to turbo) on the straight. etc.
its the first step with the current .2’s GT3 and RS with which GT models could become more ‚unconfortable‘. since the 996.
but they now again become better for us.
massive thank you.
which spring rate got the GT2RS?
and in the same time all the fancy blingbling owners will be a bit pissed. are not enjoying their cars. MT is not so cool driving it. 80/160 ??? Nm or really double which comes to 90/240 springs
( 45/120 std on .1 and .2 GT3 also on .1GT3RS?) anyhow.. way to firm, no power (compared to turbo) on the straight. etc.its the first step with the current .2’s GT3 and RS with which GT models could become more ‚unconfortable‘. since the 996.
but they now again become better for us.
massive thank you.
which spring rate got the GT2RS?
Last edited by jo_ker; 02-23-2018 at 05:19 PM.
02-23-2018 | 06:45 PM
#63
Pro
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 683
Likes: 32
Someone had a picture of the latest Viper ACR that set all the "records" recently. Tires had a UTQG rating of 15...... The Viper test engineers used them over regular track slicks, as they were getting better times with the special "street" tires.
This ring time stuff is so out of hand - remember the GTR nonsense - no one could repeat the times...
This ring time stuff is so out of hand - remember the GTR nonsense - no one could repeat the times...
02-24-2018 | 09:04 AM
#65
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,435
Likes: 818
From: Central New Jersey
My my bet is .1RS time in dry weather with newer MPCS would be 7:10ish.
.2RS will do 7:02 give or take a click.
i agree with Mvez and comment that spring rate adopted from Manthey. Better for track times and maybe less forgiving and more uncomfortable on the street. Everything is a compromise. Can’t have total track spring rates and maintain same comfort as softer rates.
02-24-2018 | 09:55 AM
#66
Pro
Joined: Feb 2017
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Repeat exactly? Don't think it will, but Lars will do a couple of sub 6 full laps on instruction. He has a couple of 7:00 btg with traffic and trainee on the car with manthey cars. Again, you will see costumer cars doing full lap time on btg, so sub 7 btg. There won't be a lot of cars getting even close.
02-24-2018 | 10:15 AM
#67
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,075
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From: Germany/Austria
BTG sub7 a couple of guys in here could reach too in a GT2RS. After 100 laps good training and leading.
This can nearly be done in a preped E92M3 with stock engine.
BTG below 6:25 - which would get somehow in line with the record lap - i - would never be able to.
This can nearly be done in a preped E92M3 with stock engine.
BTG below 6:25 - which would get somehow in line with the record lap - i - would never be able to.
02-24-2018 | 01:25 PM
#68
Pro
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 606
Likes: 7
It is amusing the myth of a 'damp track' for the 7:20 on the .1RS persists. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that and Porsche would have went back if conditions had affected their lap. And the SportAuto lap of 7:28 hardly gives credence to the idea the 'official' lap of 7:20 isn't a correct representation of what it can do.
02-24-2018 | 03:11 PM
#69
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 58
Likes: 2
From: Europe
Please stop with this Nurburgring hype crap ! You only wind up this marketing bull**** even higher in which Porsche is a king. How many of you were there ? Not to mention drive there regularly.
First of , i and you also should not trust factory lap times. Conditions in which they do their records are at least a bit far from how this should be done. Not a long time ago before some manufactures started to treat Nordschleife as 0-60 times it was more civilized.
Car suppose to be in state from showroom. Did Porsche bring new GT3.2 or GT2 RS from showroom ? No they did not. They brought GT3 with full racing seat with harness which can make a really noticeable difference behind the wheel ! Position is more stable and driver can be more precise with overall driving. Who drove at least once on Ring, know how important is stable position on this track and how significant can affect time, especially when you are driving on the edge. I don't have a clue of tires pressure but i can assume that they were not also recommended.
Same with the GT2. They waited to very late, to almost sunset when temperature was lower both for tarmac and air, so imagine how this could affected for hyper turbocharged car when tempartures are bit higher than for normally aspirated engines. I believe it helped for tires too.
Porsche did not start this Nurburgring hype for lap times, but they mastered it. They are masters in marketing and making customers easy target. They do this all little tricks to hipnotize blind crowd. But It's not only Porsche obviously.
The only true factor for me regarding Nurburgring lap times is Sport Auto Magazine. They take cars and don't do this all little tricks who can affect true times.
First of , i and you also should not trust factory lap times. Conditions in which they do their records are at least a bit far from how this should be done. Not a long time ago before some manufactures started to treat Nordschleife as 0-60 times it was more civilized.
Car suppose to be in state from showroom. Did Porsche bring new GT3.2 or GT2 RS from showroom ? No they did not. They brought GT3 with full racing seat with harness which can make a really noticeable difference behind the wheel ! Position is more stable and driver can be more precise with overall driving. Who drove at least once on Ring, know how important is stable position on this track and how significant can affect time, especially when you are driving on the edge. I don't have a clue of tires pressure but i can assume that they were not also recommended.
Same with the GT2. They waited to very late, to almost sunset when temperature was lower both for tarmac and air, so imagine how this could affected for hyper turbocharged car when tempartures are bit higher than for normally aspirated engines. I believe it helped for tires too.
Porsche did not start this Nurburgring hype for lap times, but they mastered it. They are masters in marketing and making customers easy target. They do this all little tricks to hipnotize blind crowd. But It's not only Porsche obviously.
The only true factor for me regarding Nurburgring lap times is Sport Auto Magazine. They take cars and don't do this all little tricks who can affect true times.
Last edited by MegaLoL; 02-25-2018 at 06:51 AM.
02-25-2018 | 08:55 AM
#70
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Joined: Feb 2017
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Actually no, I live in europe so I actually use the track, so to me it's as relevant as portimao (my home track). See, the thing that makes nurburgring developement end up in a good car, especially a good turbo car, is that 1) suspension will always be better than cars that are developed in other tracks, hard suspension w/ no compliance = disaster, the car will be setup for both high speed and low speed tracks, in turbo cars, the cars will be boiling from all the wot and high revs, this is much harder to check on other tracks, so you will get a better cooling system (radiators and intercoolers), and weak construction points will show given all the high speed bumps and compressions and the not very smooth pavement. If mclaren had developed more there they wouldn't have so many niggles and problems.
If a car is good there it will be good everywhere. Pretty simple. And given that the gt2rs and the gt3 rs aren't neither a gt2 or a gt3, it's obvious that Porsche will always compromise a bit comfort for performance, that's the point of an RS, track performance. And given that the nurburgring is the daddy and the mother of all tracks, it's the one that matters the most and the only worth talking.
Hope I explained it well.
If a car is good there it will be good everywhere. Pretty simple. And given that the gt2rs and the gt3 rs aren't neither a gt2 or a gt3, it's obvious that Porsche will always compromise a bit comfort for performance, that's the point of an RS, track performance. And given that the nurburgring is the daddy and the mother of all tracks, it's the one that matters the most and the only worth talking.
Hope I explained it well.
02-25-2018 | 10:10 AM
#72
Race Car
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,848
Likes: 419
From: Europe
1 Lap 1: Nice!
2 Lap 2: Ooooh, fading a bit
3 Lap 3: Are there only two exits of the track, please get me out of here!
02-25-2018 | 10:25 AM
#73
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02-25-2018 | 12:17 PM
#74
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 58
Likes: 2
From: Europe
Actually no, I live in europe so I actually use the track, so to me it's as relevant as portimao (my home track). See, the thing that makes nurburgring developement end up in a good car, especially a good turbo car, is that 1) suspension will always be better than cars that are developed in other tracks, hard suspension w/ no compliance = disaster, the car will be setup for both high speed and low speed tracks, in turbo cars, the cars will be boiling from all the wot and high revs, this is much harder to check on other tracks, so you will get a better cooling system (radiators and intercoolers), and weak construction points will show given all the high speed bumps and compressions and the not very smooth pavement. If mclaren had developed more there they wouldn't have so many niggles and problems.
If a car is good there it will be good everywhere. Pretty simple. And given that the gt2rs and the gt3 rs aren't neither a gt2 or a gt3, it's obvious that Porsche will always compromise a bit comfort for performance, that's the point of an RS, track performance. And given that the nurburgring is the daddy and the mother of all tracks, it's the one that matters the most and the only worth talking.
Hope I explained it well.
If a car is good there it will be good everywhere. Pretty simple. And given that the gt2rs and the gt3 rs aren't neither a gt2 or a gt3, it's obvious that Porsche will always compromise a bit comfort for performance, that's the point of an RS, track performance. And given that the nurburgring is the daddy and the mother of all tracks, it's the one that matters the most and the only worth talking.
Hope I explained it well.
I was reffering to how they measure times for their products and wind up hype. All these little tricks on that, or there affect time significant. They say " car is normal production one, we only changed seat for cup one " And they answer why they did that is " for safety ". What a bull****. I don't recall they did that with 997 platform or even with 991.1. Similar with performante. There are still high doubts for their official time.
So where this marketing for Nurburgring got us ? For cheating ? And we all must accept this crap ? Ooo GT2 RS did below 6.50 ! I must get one ! If they would have done 6.55 or God forbid above 7 min I would not want one ! Hell no !
Journalist brought AMG GTR in very cold day and did time way faster than all GT Porsches. For me that time is legit. They did times for GT3 and RS few seconds slower than official Porsche.
02-25-2018 | 03:09 PM
#75
Pro
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 606
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even if the ring was harder on brakes, a single lap there isn't going to tell you anything about the ability of a car's brakes to last 20+ mins at another track that is hard on them?