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Preuninger admits it's not simply about power, but instead a case of finessing the package, making small gains that collectively add up to a greater whole: "This is more about tactility, precision. Precision was in general what we had in mind."Unsurprisingly, then, the chassis borrows heavily from the GT2 RS, the suspension featuring the same solid links, with the exception of one mount relating to the rear-wheel steering system. Essentially it's set -up like a Cup car, the spring rates doubled over the GT3, Preuninger admitting that the suspension is where the GT3 RS gains the most. Enough, he reckons for a Nurburgring time of around 7 minutes 5 seconds, significantly quicker than the old car, and he says only about one second of that gain would be down to the increased power.
The improvements will be traction, grip, control and aero. Everything from the rear-wheel steering system and e-diff controls having been re-calibrated, to the brake pads now sitting fractionally closer to the discs. Those discs will be steel as standard, or PCCB carbon ceramic items if you tick the correct option box. With either material the front brakes are cooled by the NACA ducts in the bonnet borrowed from the GT2 RS, these having the dual benefit of also cleaning up the air travelling over the back of the car to the rear wing. That wing sits a touch higher, the RS able to generate the same downforce as its predecessor, but doing so while generating less drag.
FYI - the prior RS's time was 7:20, so 10 seconds faster would only be 7:10. I agree that they'll beat this though (since GT3 is under 7:13). Under 7 minutes is possible, but would require a very nice drive...
My guess is the prior RS (.1 RS) might do better than its 7:20 if shod with the new cup 2 compound that is being used for .2 GT3 or .2 RS. Perhaps AP should pair the two RS's in a dual of the Titans.
So this should quell a lot of wishful thinking in this thread. I wonder if these monoball joints can be retrofitted to .1 GT3/RS or .2 GT3s. Being OEM street parts, they should be very durable, compared to aftermarket or even PMNA parts.
I'm always long winded. FWIW - these rates are totally fine on the street. Ohlins has me running 200 N/mm rear springs (1140#), and I'm freakin shocked at how good it rides on "street" settings. I'm talking barely even noticeable over stock, and mostly because I added monoball upper mounts.
If this is any indication of what is to come for .2 3RS owners, you guys are in for a treat. It's going to be sooooo much better for track and sticky tires, with virtually no additional harshness, but more direct feeling. Until now, the spring rates were too much of a compromise, but .2 3RS now truly needs no upgrades to the suspension.
This car makes me want to become a PDK convert.
i assume the Ohlins you are talking about on your car are TTX..... Those are motorsport quality kit and are a totally different level to the OEM Bilstein (I think) PASM ones. I wouldn't necessarily expect your experience to be comparable as the dampers you have likely can cope with the higher spring rate much better....
i assume the Ohlins you are talking about on your car are TTX..... Those are motorsport quality kit and are a totally different level to the OEM Bilstein (I think) PASM ones. I wouldn't necessarily expect your experience to be comparable as the dampers you have likely can cope with the higher spring rate much better....
Any damper can handle high rates, and give good ride quality if properly valved. The TTX for GT3/RS are for the street, they are motorsport technology applied to a "clubsport" version of these dampers. Same as the Bilstein clubsport kit, which I almost also bought for my car. I have them on my M3, and can drive around the street on my "track" settings, and it's still very good. If I put them on street settings, it ride just like stock, but better. The OEM bilsteins are not much different internally than the clubsports, except they use the magnetized shock oil for PASM, and don't have manual adjustment, but are valved correctly for those spring rates. The new RS will have these same "high" spring rates with PASM, and the car will ride fine. A bit more firm (moreso because of monoballs everywhere), but still fine.
That's basically how PASM works, Bilstein/Porsche pick two baseline profiles for their SPORT and Non-SPORT chassis/shock settings, and then from there, the PASM allows further adaptation, so basically it's the same as choosing a "street:" and "track" setting on a manually adjustable damper.
All previous GT3/RS use tiny 260# front spring, then they try to run tons of damper stiffness (compression and rebound) to make up for that lack of stiffness, which results in a harsh ride. If you drive on a properly damped car with 600# front springs, the ride is not much different, and in some cases better. Bilstein/Porsche know what they are doing. My comparison is very applicable. Not to mention, tons of people already use stiffer springs on the .1 GT3/RS and the ride quality is still good, and that's with Bilsteins not ideally valved for those spring rates, so the ride quality will only get better with this new OE Bilstein.
I have to say I think you are underplaying the difference good dampers can make. Exe-tc have had a lot of success for example running soft springs but high damping rates on a very high quality damper for example. Likewise a good damper can make a harder spring ride acceptably as well and certainly better than a lesser damper even if valved for the same spring rate. There's a good reason why the motorsport type dampers (TTX) cost a heck of a lot more than level of dampers below (Bilsteins). Put it this way, replace the OE damper even in the new 3rs with a TTX or similar that has been setup correctly and I reckon there will be a significant difference in both performance and ride quality.
I have to say I think you are underplaying the difference good dampers can make. Exe-tc have had a lot of success for example running soft springs but high damping rates on a very high quality damper for example. Likewise a good damper can make a harder spring ride acceptably as well and certainly better than a lesser damper even if valved for the same spring rate. There's a good reason why the motorsport type dampers (TTX) cost a heck of a lot more than level of dampers below (Bilsteins). Put it this way, replace the OE damper even in the new 3rs with a TTX or similar that has been setup correctly and I reckon there will be a significant difference in both performance and ride quality.
I know the value of a good damper, but this conversation is less about dampers and more about spring rates. Soft spring rates with high damping is a bigger compromise trying to cater to street driving. If you want ultimate track performance, there is no replacement for proper spring rates. That's why Porsche finally gave them to the 2RS and 3RS. There is a reason that on a starting grid, there may be 10 totally different types of dampers fitted to various race cars, but all have about the same range of spring rates, which are more ideal for the intended use. That tells you all you need to know.
Until now, the RS had "street" spring rates, now they have more "track" spring rates. Whatever shock they use to damp those rates is fine, it will be adequate and valved correctly. That's the point you are missing and what my initial comment was referring to. You are underplaying the how good the OE Bilsteins are.
Also, the Ohlins Clubsport TTX aren't anymore expensive than Bilstein clubsports, I know I own them both, and priced them for the GT3. Both have internals and seals for street use, not full "motorsport/race" use. The Motorsport TTX are different, and are directly comparable to the Bilstein MDS.....those are full motorsport, not for street use.
No way will it go sub 7, I really don't think it will be as fast as the Manthey .1 RS at 7:10+-. The Ring obviously requires tons of downforce since it is such a high speed track, but it also requires a lot of power, to reach high speeds, to fight against all that downforce on the long straights.
The Manthey car had suspension work(different coilovers), the new rear diffuser, stickier tires than stock on super lightweight wheels, etc etc, and went 7:10, which is 10 seconds faster than a stock .1, just can't see (imo) the .2 going any faster, but maybe match that number.
This RS is faster than the manthey car, that I have 0 doubts. My only doubt is how faster will the car vs car be and how fast will lars kern be than the guy that drove the manthey .1RS.
I think rennlist didn't understood how much better the aero (a lot of less drag, less pressure below the car, less lift/pressure on the 4 wheels, all of this results on more downforce) then you have a ridiculous small thing, helper springs in front and reworked e-diff software, that I think will just kill low-medium speed understeer and one will just be able to put more power much earlier in a corner. Then you have chassis rigity to sweeten everything up.
Having said all of this, I can't see a sub 7 time. Very low 7 yes. What I can see is vast improments on fast and shorter tracks like spa and such. And actual owners being a LOT faster on this new one on nurburgring then they were.
Those talking springs, they are still soft-ish, they increase the rates because of the increase in aero. And to mantain the wonders that soft springs do to traction and comfort they added helper springs on the 4 corners
Those talking springs, they are still soft-ish, they increase the rates because of the increase in aero. And to mantain the wonders that soft springs do to traction and comfort they added helper springs on the 4 corners
are the helpers not actually fully blocked under static load and simply exist to allow for sufficient travel so don't actually do anything for traction/comfort? Afaik, the helper on the gt4 and 991.1rs are fully blocked.
02-22-2018, 12:11 AM
