GT3RS 991.2 Nurburgring....
02-25-2018, 11:22 PM
#77
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Please stop with this Nurburgring hype crap ! You only wind up this marketing bull**** even higher in which Porsche is a king. How many of you were there ? Not to mention drive there regularly.
First of , i and you also should not trust factory lap times. Conditions in which they do their records are at least a bit far from how this should be done. Not a long time ago before some manufactures started to treat Nordschleife as 0-60 times it was more civilized.
Car suppose to be in state from showroom. Did Porsche bring new GT3.2 or GT2 RS from showroom ? No they did not. They brought GT3 with full racing seat with harness which can make a really noticeable difference behind the wheel ! Position is more stable and driver can be more precise with overall driving. Who drove at least once on Ring, know how important is stable position on this track and how significant can affect time, especially when you are driving on the edge. I don't have a clue of tires pressure but i can assume that they were not also recommended.
Same with the GT2. They waited to very late, to almost sunset when temperature was lower both for tarmac and air, so imagine how this could affected for hyper turbocharged car when tempartures are bit higher than for normally aspirated engines. I believe it helped for tires too.
Porsche did not start this Nurburgring hype for lap times, but they mastered it. They are masters in marketing and making customers easy target. They do this all little tricks to hipnotize blind crowd. But It's not only Porsche obviously.
The only true factor for me regarding Nurburgring lap times is Sport Auto Magazine. They take cars and don't do this all little tricks who can affect true times.
First of , i and you also should not trust factory lap times. Conditions in which they do their records are at least a bit far from how this should be done. Not a long time ago before some manufactures started to treat Nordschleife as 0-60 times it was more civilized.
Car suppose to be in state from showroom. Did Porsche bring new GT3.2 or GT2 RS from showroom ? No they did not. They brought GT3 with full racing seat with harness which can make a really noticeable difference behind the wheel ! Position is more stable and driver can be more precise with overall driving. Who drove at least once on Ring, know how important is stable position on this track and how significant can affect time, especially when you are driving on the edge. I don't have a clue of tires pressure but i can assume that they were not also recommended.
Same with the GT2. They waited to very late, to almost sunset when temperature was lower both for tarmac and air, so imagine how this could affected for hyper turbocharged car when tempartures are bit higher than for normally aspirated engines. I believe it helped for tires too.
Porsche did not start this Nurburgring hype for lap times, but they mastered it. They are masters in marketing and making customers easy target. They do this all little tricks to hipnotize blind crowd. But It's not only Porsche obviously.
The only true factor for me regarding Nurburgring lap times is Sport Auto Magazine. They take cars and don't do this all little tricks who can affect true times.
02-26-2018, 01:31 PM
#78
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Yes, I've thought for some time they should be doing an average of three laps instead of one lap and the cars melt (looking at you, American cars). If you can pound on a GT3 all day but your Camaro is done after 7 or 8 minutes one of those cars has left performance on the table for the sake of durability and overall competence.
02-27-2018, 02:07 PM
#79
You missed my point completly. I don't mind that cars are develop on Nurburgring which is very demanding for components. I love to be there. In fact i have been tracking on Nurburgring since 8 years few times in year.
I was reffering to how they measure times for their products and wind up hype. All these little tricks on that, or there affect time significant. They say " car is normal production one, we only changed seat for cup one " And they answer why they did that is " for safety ". What a bull****. I don't recall they did that with 997 platform or even with 991.1. Similar with performante. There are still high doubts for their official time.
So where this marketing for Nurburgring got us ? For cheating ? And we all must accept this crap ? Ooo GT2 RS did below 6.50 ! I must get one ! If they would have done 6.55 or God forbid above 7 min I would not want one ! Hell no !
Journalist brought AMG GTR in very cold day and did time way faster than all GT Porsches. For me that time is legit. They did times for GT3 and RS few seconds slower than official Porsche.
On the gt2 rs. God forbid indeed. A GT car with more torque and power being slower than an heavy 4wd with less power? That would have been a quick way to kill the Porsche hype.
On the seats and things of that nature, that's a driver requirement. Didn't Lars lapped the sedan record with a full fat panamera? Or the alfa giulia on a tshirt and jeans on a stock car?
Drivers should ask for these type of things, most have careers out of this, and it doesn't pay well enough to risk the rest. Others are just their own quirkinesses.
on the usage of lap times for mkt, they are a business any external validation is a free selling point, and the more your product is validated the better you can sell it. I find no fault on this. Plus gt cars are literally track cars, if there are a set of car models where lap times are extremely relevant are in these.
So yeah that's that. I can agree with you on other cars that won't see a minute of track or a recurrent track use in their lifetimes, but not on these cars. Even some cars like the panamera or now the stelvio, are lapped to show how sporty and good these cars can drive
02-27-2018, 02:12 PM
#80
No way will it go sub 7, I really don't think it will be as fast as the Manthey .1 RS at 7:10+-. The Ring obviously requires tons of downforce since it is such a high speed track, but it also requires a lot of power, to reach high speeds, to fight against all that downforce on the long straights.
The Manthey car had suspension work(different coilovers), the new rear diffuser, stickier tires than stock on super lightweight wheels, etc etc, and went 7:10, which is 10 seconds faster than a stock .1, just can't see (imo) the .2 going any faster, but maybe match that number.
The Manthey car had suspension work(different coilovers), the new rear diffuser, stickier tires than stock on super lightweight wheels, etc etc, and went 7:10, which is 10 seconds faster than a stock .1, just can't see (imo) the .2 going any faster, but maybe match that number.
I actually think this car will lap closer to the acr than the manthey time
02-27-2018, 03:20 PM
#81
There is imo a very good chance the 3 way KW competition dampers are higher quality units than the OEM 991.2RS dampers especially as they would have been specifically valved/tuned to suit by Manthey..
02-27-2018, 04:04 PM
#82
Just add add the manthey aligment and voilá.
02-27-2018, 04:15 PM
#83
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GT2 RS conspiracy theories are a joke. Race seat was about having proper Halo for safety. Lars may be insane but he’s not an idiot.
GT3 RS will be mega-quick but it won’t break 7mins as some have speculated.
GT3 RS will be mega-quick but it won’t break 7mins as some have speculated.
02-27-2018, 06:09 PM
#85
Well the lap is supposed to be representative of a car that is available. Until Porsche offer a factory halo drivers seat option, then a lap with a halo seat (safer and so driver feels able to take more risk) is not representative of a customer spec car and the lap should really be done at a pace Kern feels comfortable with the standard bucket seat....
02-27-2018, 06:52 PM
#87
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02-27-2018, 09:05 PM
#88
Apparently the .2 rs is in fact lighter than the 1.rs on the lightest spec but some rule was changed and now there is a new formula for calculating weight that is related to all the options available. I actually don't know the formula, but i know the car even without the wp will be lighter than the same spec on a 1.rs
02-27-2018, 09:10 PM
#89
Well the lap is supposed to be representative of a car that is available. Until Porsche offer a factory halo drivers seat option, then a lap with a halo seat (safer and so driver feels able to take more risk) is not representative of a customer spec car and the lap should really be done at a pace Kern feels comfortable with the standard bucket seat....
02-27-2018, 09:39 PM
#90
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Well the lap is supposed to be representative of a car that is available. Until Porsche offer a factory halo drivers seat option, then a lap with a halo seat (safer and so driver feels able to take more risk) is not representative of a customer spec car and the lap should really be done at a pace Kern feels comfortable with the standard bucket seat....
Secondly, the Ring is an unusually dangerous track. It's narrow, bumpy and has no runoffs. You would be much safer on any normal track in a non-bucket seat than in the safest seat possible on the ring.
Finally, it's a test of the car and not test of driver's ***** (or lack of self-preservation). There are definitely drivers just as fast as Kern who would not care about halo and did the same lap in a regular seat in a t-shirt. Maybe even Kern does not care about it, but lawyers/insurance/his parents do...
Using additional safety equipment in no way invalidates test of car's performance. Even in competitive racing safety mods are not counted against performance mod points, because it has nothing to do with performance and is just a good idea.