DEALER WANTS 20K OVER MSRP FOR GT3 ALLOCATION
01-31-2018, 01:40 PM
#17
I'm sure they'll take $15k...
01-31-2018, 02:12 PM
#18
Instructor
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01-31-2018, 04:41 PM
#19
Drifting
I'm not entirely upset at ADMs. But I don't like getting taxed on that premium. ADM adds to the sales tax. It adds to the registration fee. And it adds to the annual registration renewal, depending on your state.
Here in CA, a $15K ADM adds almost $3,000 to the sales tax. It adds another $800 to the registration fee for year one. And it adds another $600 or so the next year, and so on. Add it up and that $15K ADM might actually cost $25,000 after a few years. It can also make insurance premiums higher, since some policies take sale price into account. I had one insurance company refuse to give me a policy because they won't insure a car over a certain price.
If there were a way to pay that ADM outside of the final sale price of the vehicle, I'd be more accepting of it, for a car I want.
Here in CA, a $15K ADM adds almost $3,000 to the sales tax. It adds another $800 to the registration fee for year one. And it adds another $600 or so the next year, and so on. Add it up and that $15K ADM might actually cost $25,000 after a few years. It can also make insurance premiums higher, since some policies take sale price into account. I had one insurance company refuse to give me a policy because they won't insure a car over a certain price.
If there were a way to pay that ADM outside of the final sale price of the vehicle, I'd be more accepting of it, for a car I want.
01-31-2018, 04:51 PM
#20
I'm not entirely upset at ADMs. But I don't like getting taxed on that premium. ADM adds to the sales tax. It adds to the registration fee. And it adds to the annual registration renewal, depending on your state.
Here in CA, a $15K ADM adds almost $3,000 to the sales tax. It adds another $800 to the registration fee for year one. And it adds another $600 or so the next year, and so on. Add it up and that $15K ADM might actually cost $25,000 after a few years. It can also make insurance premiums higher, since some policies take sale price into account. I had one insurance company refuse to give me a policy because they won't insure a car over a certain price.
If there were a way to pay that ADM outside of the final sale price of the vehicle, I'd be more accepting of it, for a car I want.
Here in CA, a $15K ADM adds almost $3,000 to the sales tax. It adds another $800 to the registration fee for year one. And it adds another $600 or so the next year, and so on. Add it up and that $15K ADM might actually cost $25,000 after a few years. It can also make insurance premiums higher, since some policies take sale price into account. I had one insurance company refuse to give me a policy because they won't insure a car over a certain price.
If there were a way to pay that ADM outside of the final sale price of the vehicle, I'd be more accepting of it, for a car I want.
01-31-2018, 04:57 PM
#21
Drifting
EDIT: I think in CA you get taxed on services too...
01-31-2018, 05:08 PM
#22
I'm not entirely upset at ADMs. But I don't like getting taxed on that premium. ADM adds to the sales tax. It adds to the registration fee. And it adds to the annual registration renewal, depending on your state.
Here in CA, a $15K ADM adds almost $3,000 to the sales tax. It adds another $800 to the registration fee for year one. And it adds another $600 or so the next year, and so on. Add it up and that $15K ADM might actually cost $25,000 after a few years. It can also make insurance premiums higher, since some policies take sale price into account. I had one insurance company refuse to give me a policy because they won't insure a car over a certain price.
If there were a way to pay that ADM outside of the final sale price of the vehicle, I'd be more accepting of it, for a car I want.
Here in CA, a $15K ADM adds almost $3,000 to the sales tax. It adds another $800 to the registration fee for year one. And it adds another $600 or so the next year, and so on. Add it up and that $15K ADM might actually cost $25,000 after a few years. It can also make insurance premiums higher, since some policies take sale price into account. I had one insurance company refuse to give me a policy because they won't insure a car over a certain price.
If there were a way to pay that ADM outside of the final sale price of the vehicle, I'd be more accepting of it, for a car I want.
Alternative is to pay a broker to find you a car, rather than paying the ADM to the dealer.
01-31-2018, 05:17 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Assuming the story is legit, the witch hunt should be after the dealer 'trading' an allocation to another dealer for over MSRP rather than letting it go to one of their customers patiently waiting in line...
01-31-2018, 05:53 PM
#24
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Isn't it pretty much 1% out of people who aren't in the VIP program with Porsche that get GT Vehicles at MSRP, I was adamant about getting the car at MSRP, but after calling 30 plus dealerships its physically impossible since I was a little late to the game, plus after Porsche's news about 2018 being the last model year, chances were becoming lower. Then I had to basically negotiate the maximum ADM I was willing to pay...
Can't really blame dealership, MSRP is only suggested...I am pretty sure if you owned the dealership you would do the same to make a few extra $
Can't really blame dealership, MSRP is only suggested...I am pretty sure if you owned the dealership you would do the same to make a few extra $
01-31-2018, 06:13 PM
#25
01-31-2018, 06:19 PM
#26
Drifting
Sorry, how do you figure that? Tax is 8-9% and the VLF is .65% of value. How do you get $3000 out of that on $15k? And most insurance has nothing to do with your purchase price, it's based on MSRP.
Alternative is to pay a broker to find you a car, rather than paying the ADM to the dealer.
Alternative is to pay a broker to find you a car, rather than paying the ADM to the dealer.
Let's say car price = $185,000
Delivery: ~$1,000
Gas Guzzler: $1700 (manual transmission)
Total price: $187,700
Sales tax: 8.5% = $15,954
ADM: $15,000
New total: $202,700
New sales tax: $17,229, delta = $1275
Total Registration Fees Without ADM: $1,519
Grand Total Without ADM (includes all the other misc fees): $17,474
Total Registration Fees WITH ADM: $1,617
Grand Total with ADM: $18,847
Delta: $1,373 increase for the first year, with ADM.
I'm not sure how registration renewal fees are calculated. But I do know it's base don the value and depreciation of the car calculated from sales price (which includes that $15,000 markup). So after 5 years, I'd love to know what the additional cost would be. Maybe in total, the 5-year difference in cost-to-own (with ADM) would be what... maybe $5-6k? I guessed $10K before.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me I guess. Would I prefer to not pay an ADM and additional tax? Yes. But as others have said, if the car were $15K more in MSRP, would I still want it? Yes.
But it's an interesting exercise to break down the costs associated with padding the dealer's pockets.
01-31-2018, 06:25 PM
#27
Race Director
ADM...SUCKS...totally SUCKS...but its free enterprise and the dealers can get it. I've bought 11 new Porsches since 2001between 2 local dealers in the Tampa area and 2 of them from Champion across the state...and I cant even get on a list for a GT3...so you're for 1 lucky to get on the list and if Champion offered you a GT3 at 10 over...wow ADMS are coming down by a lot.
I'd love a GT3...not to resell it for profit, I don't want to do that or have time for all that...just a GT3 to track drive and enjoy for the next 3-5 years then trade it in to get another one.
I'd love a GT3...not to resell it for profit, I don't want to do that or have time for all that...just a GT3 to track drive and enjoy for the next 3-5 years then trade it in to get another one.
01-31-2018, 06:35 PM
#28
Life is far from fair. Pay the ADM and enjoy the car, or move on. These are luxury items, you can live without it, life goes on. Focus on the enjoyment factor these cars offer, not deltas/value/ADM.
01-31-2018, 06:42 PM
#29
Pro
You're right. I was just estimating in my head. Here are some real numbers:
Let's say car price = $185,000
Delivery: ~$1,000
Gas Guzzler: $1700 (manual transmission)
Total price: $187,700
Sales tax: 8.5% = $15,954
ADM: $15,000
New total: $202,700
New sales tax: $17,229, delta = $1275
Total Registration Fees Without ADM: $1,519
Grand Total Without ADM (includes all the other misc fees): $17,474
Total Registration Fees WITH ADM: $1,617
Grand Total with ADM: $18,847
Delta: $1,373 increase for the first year, with ADM.
I'm not sure how registration renewal fees are calculated. But I do know it's base don the value and depreciation of the car calculated from sales price (which includes that $15,000 markup). So after 5 years, I'd love to know what the additional cost would be. Maybe in total, the 5-year difference in cost-to-own (with ADM) would be what... maybe $5-6k? I guessed $10K before.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me I guess. Would I prefer to not pay an ADM and additional tax? Yes. But as others have said, if the car were $15K more in MSRP, would I still want it? Yes. But it's an interesting exercise to break down the costs associated with padding the dealer's pockets.
Let's say car price = $185,000
Delivery: ~$1,000
Gas Guzzler: $1700 (manual transmission)
Total price: $187,700
Sales tax: 8.5% = $15,954
ADM: $15,000
New total: $202,700
New sales tax: $17,229, delta = $1275
Total Registration Fees Without ADM: $1,519
Grand Total Without ADM (includes all the other misc fees): $17,474
Total Registration Fees WITH ADM: $1,617
Grand Total with ADM: $18,847
Delta: $1,373 increase for the first year, with ADM.
I'm not sure how registration renewal fees are calculated. But I do know it's base don the value and depreciation of the car calculated from sales price (which includes that $15,000 markup). So after 5 years, I'd love to know what the additional cost would be. Maybe in total, the 5-year difference in cost-to-own (with ADM) would be what... maybe $5-6k? I guessed $10K before.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me I guess. Would I prefer to not pay an ADM and additional tax? Yes. But as others have said, if the car were $15K more in MSRP, would I still want it? Yes.
But it's an interesting exercise to break down the costs associated with padding the dealer's pockets.1st year: Additional tax at 8.5% of 1,275 plus reg VLF at .65 % is 98. So total would be 1373 in the 1st year.
2nd year: 88
3rd year: 78
4th: 68
5th: 59
6th: 49
7th: 39
8th: 29
9th: 24
10: 20
So, an extra 1,827 over 10 years of ownership in addition to the ADM of 15 k. Not fun, but also not 5-10k extra.
01-31-2018, 06:46 PM
#30
Drifting
This what the fee would be on and ADM of 15k for CA.
1st year: Additional tax at 8.5% of 1,275 plus reg VLF at .65 % is 98. So total would be 1373 in the 1st year.
2nd year: 88
3rd year: 78
4th: 68
5th: 59
6th: 49
7th: 39
8th: 29
9th: 24
10: 20
So, an extra 1,827 over 10 years of ownership in addition to the ADM of 15 k. Not fun, but also not 5-10k extra.
1st year: Additional tax at 8.5% of 1,275 plus reg VLF at .65 % is 98. So total would be 1373 in the 1st year.
2nd year: 88
3rd year: 78
4th: 68
5th: 59
6th: 49
7th: 39
8th: 29
9th: 24
10: 20
So, an extra 1,827 over 10 years of ownership in addition to the ADM of 15 k. Not fun, but also not 5-10k extra.
Last edited by FourT6and2; 01-31-2018 at 07:04 PM.