Chris88

This link to Porsche's Newsroom clearly states: "With the exception of the rear, the body of the GT3 remains unchanged in the variant with Touring Package."

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/prod...ler-14133.html

It also states: "The powertrain and chassis are identical on all 911 GT3 vehicles with manual transmission, including the variant with Touring Package."

This makes me very happy, as I recently was able to change my build to the Touring Package. I hope to have my car right around the first of the year.

Bardman

0.1s time is from where?


Makes no sense to me. The harder you are pushing down, the more friction you have to overcome. Might be less stable, but not less fast.

Interesting statements, but again make no sense. Any referenceable facts you can point to?

Bardman

You would have to doubt that any part numbers were different - at most it would be software settings with the dampers.

Despite Porsche not explicitly mentioning it, I would fully expect that settings have been tweaked as a result of difference downforce.

rezgui.rachid

The info is from my SA. Porsche shared the technical data of the Touring package with its dealers.

[QUOTE
Makes no sense to me. The harder you are pushing down, the more friction you have to overcome. Might be less stable, but not less fast.
[/QUOTE]
True. but, the harder you push down on the wheels the more grip you have, and hence the more speed you create. That is also why a 400 Hp carrera S has the same 0-60 than a 500 hp front engine car: it has the engine sitting on the rear wheels.

0-100 and 0-160 are exactly the same. 3.9 and 7.6.
0-200 is 11.4 for the manual and 11.5 for the touring.

MileHigh911

Let's not forget the RAM air effect that the GT3 has, which is suppose to overcome some downforce drag at higher speeds. But, more importantly, Porsche will "class" the cars times where it deems they should be. All very well manipulated.

Footsoldier

From what I hear from someone who owns both, the .2GT3 suspension is much harsher on road, and more 'racecar' than the R, and even the .1GT3RS (which he did 10,000 miles in, more than half on track). Better performance than the R on a track.

It's what you would expect - Porsche tailors the models very well, for their intended usage/niche.

randr

Porsche are precise - the aero will be modelled to ensure stability at Vmax. The issue being these cars will hit 290kmh on autobahns and +230kmh on track.

Agreed, irrelevant for US road speed limits.

C.J. Ichiban

The biggest misconception that guys create about wings and diffusers on these cars-

Handling variations are caused more through alignment vs spring rates or a magical rear diffuser. The diffuser is tiny and so much air is going past it on all angles it's not really affecting the airflow like the Viper ACR or P1 diffusers.

The rake of the car makes the biggest changes to the looseness or initial turn in of a 991 Chassis. More rake with reduced front end ride height preloads the front suspension and allows less air under the car which means you get less 'vague nose' on entry. But too much and it will be super loose from the rear on brake release.

The Front to rear balance on the sway bars makes a huge difference. More front bar and the steering gets heavier and a little harder to get the car to turn in, but makes the car super stable in high speed long corners. More rear bar means the rear of the car skates more at high end of slip angle spectrum.

Rear wheel steering is computer controlled to have a certain responsiveness and for those of us that have driven the prior trio:

991.1 RS
991 GT3
991 R

You can feel the difference in the software or intervention from one to next. I have yet to drive the new GTS or GT3 with what might be RWS 3.0- from my butt's opinion the R has the "most fun" RWS algorithms. GT3 and RS are more aligned to stabilize the car using RWS.


So, the RWS tuning, and the inherent factory approved alignment will make the most difference in how much your car slides around or grips up at various pre-programmed speeds.

The new GT3 and GT3T will have the 911R's same gearshift but not sure if the clutch pedal will be the same weight. MAYBE the flywheel will make a big feel change.

It will be a great car for sure as long as you drive it!

randr

I guess it depends on what you are trying to achieve - but at the end of the day, for a road car it has to work together across the operating speed range.

The three vectors you have to deal with at one time are pitch, roll and yaw - pitch is controlled by spring rates and damping and is heavily influenced by brake bias and weight distribution as much as anything, roll as you rightly say is largely controlled by sway bars but more correctly the ratio of the sway bar thickness and therefore the sway bar torsion split front to back. Conversely yaw was/is controlled (largely these days) by brake vectoring and electronic diffs (more than suspension components).

It is these three vectors that link, to affect the position of your contact patch and with the tire chemistry control the maximum extent of your friction circle.

I agree you cant look at aero as a one dimensional problem but suffice to say you dont want much lift on a car travelling at 300kmh . Remember the Miura . Your accountant wouldn't thank you for a lift induced brown trouser moment particularly with LWBs (a perfect receptacle). Hence, vehicle shape and underbody aero to smooth airflow, reduce drag and minimise lift.

Also you have to consider variations in weight distribution relative to aero for example a GTS has a split ~ 37/63 whereas something like the GT3 has a split closer to 40/60 and interestingly the 488GTB has a split of 41.5/58.5 . All produce very different levels of downforce. I think the GTB produces 200kg of downforce at 200kmh - this means the car is glued to the road or rather its contact patches are.

Rear axle steering, a gift from the pantheon of germanic gods

In a convoluted way its sometimes better to just drive em rather than understand them

C.J. Ichiban

Randr- yes you can change sway bar relativity from front to rear, that's child's play. My point is that dynamically you will notice each adjustment doing that WAY before that tiny diffuser.

sechsgang

Agreed here completely.

evilfij

The touring will be marginally slower at higher speeds because the deployed spoiler will add drag compared to the wing. I think that is what you are seeing in the 0-200kph time.

_fletch

Agreed, however it doesn't explain the 0-60mph time difference. It's very odd indeed.

randr

I know .

Changing sway bars may be childs play yet so many people get it terribly wrong. Why? largely because the increase in rigidity is related to diameter linked to the power of 4. Thus the percentage increase, if you swap a 22mm bar for a 24mm bar (2mm increase in thickness), is a 42% increase in torsion.

Which is enormous.

Thus by changing one rear sway bar it is possible to change the character of a vehicle through a corner from safe understeer to disastrous snap over steer.

The moral of the story being, with high speed performance cars you make incremental small changes.

The point I was trying to make (originally) is Porsche are anally retentive - for example if they remove a rear wing they will still ensure that the vehicle is safe and stable at Vmax.