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'Pastel Orange' vs 'Gulf Orange' vs 'RS Orange' vs 'Signal Orange'...
Posts copied from a recent thread on the 991 gt3 forum but which
I think makes sense to record for this thread too & discuss further
if there is any interest!
******
Originally Posted by GR8 White North
My 2015 GT3 is hibernating for the winter but I thought it was time to
reveal her as there has been so much talk of PTS cars. Having not yet
seen another Pastel Orange 991 GT3, here she is..!!
***
Originally Posted by ipse dixit
Someone page Eduardo!
***
Originally Posted by Z356
Congratulations, GR8! Another fellow Canadian with a PTS gt3, eh!
I happen to like 'Pastel Orange' very much.
A little history on this fairly 'new' orange paint formulation at Porsche:
This was the color that Porsche kept as it's only solid orange once PAG
retired 'RS Orange', color code 8C6, after MY2010.
Sometime later, in the 991/981 period, they also approved the vintage
'Gulf Orange'. That color had been also approved for the 997 but was
rarely ordered. Notice the contrast between PTS 'Gulf Orange' 997 and
a period 'RS Orange' Limited Edition Boxster in the photo below:
'Continental Orange', another great vintage orange from the early 1970's,
was rejected by PAG after its feasibility study. And the classic & historic
'Signal Orange' from the late 60s/early 70's has not yet been tested for
PTS on the 991/981. So 'Pastel Orange' is still the brightest solid orange
hue you can get via PTS from Porsche today!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
***
Originally Posted by montoya
There is a Gulf orange 2014 GT3 in SoCal. Well not sure of the
exact shade of orange... But orange for sure!
***
Originally Posted by Z356
You are correct. It's 'Gulf Orange'!
Sold by Walter's in Riverside!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
***
Originally Posted by Mr. Adair
Maybe one the best current PTS colors IMO that nobody does.
My Cayman S Sport was in RS/Signal Orange and is not
a PTS color as Eduardo stated. I am so happy to see Pastel Orange
may even be a better Orange. Looks to be a deeper truer
Orange. Huge Kudos!
***
Originally Posted by Z356
Just to clarify...it was known as 'RS Orange' or simply 'Orange',
color code 8C6. Didn't include the 'Signal' designation. It's no
longer an approved PTS for the 991/981, although it was allowed
to be done on a VIP's 918 last year. And in my opinion, it's one
of the most memorable (& one of the best) color formula for
'Orange' in Porsche's long history!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
***
Originally Posted by Mr. Adair
Am I thinking "signal" as in green? In any case, I thought my Cayman S
was super bright and a great shade of orange, now after seeing Gulf and
Pastel orange I am not so sure I don't like them even better! It's also
crazy how I can't for the life of me see the difference between Gulf and
Pastel. I thought Gulf would be lighter, but it looks just as saturated and
deep as Pastel! Sheesh...
***
Originally Posted by Z356
Well I am trying to understand your 'thinking'.
The facts are that 'Signal Orange', color code 116,
which is a historic/vintage early 911 color. It is
not anything like the 'RS Orange', or 'Orange',
color code 8C6, that your Limited Edition Boxster
S was painted by the factory. To my knowledge,
'Signal Orange', color code 116, was not approved
for the 997/987 as a PTS color. And for sure it has
never been approved as a PTS color for the 991/981!
'RS Orange', color code 8C6, was first formulated
for the 2007/2008 .1 997 gt3 RS. That is the first
time it was ever seen on a Porsche. Then it was
used on the Limited Edition Boxsters and Cayman S,
as well as allowed to be ordered on any 997/987 via
PTS (until MY2010).
Trust me when I tell you that in person, and to the
human eye, it's nothing like 'Signal Orange', which
dates back from the late 1960's & was a very popular
Porsche color in its era:
*
'Pastel Orange':
*
'Gulf Orange':
*
Photos don't do justice to colors. It all depends on camera
lenses, light conditions, filters, etc. That is why you need to
see both colors - 'Gulf' and 'Pastel' - in person. And then you
will be able to tell the difference. They are nothing alike!
I hope this was of some assistance!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
***
Originally Posted by Mr. Adair
Eduardo strikes again! Well, those photos clear things up a bit
don't they! Clearly Gulf is darker and with more red in it and
Pastel is well, more pastel!
I have a question for you. Our understanding is that you
could only have done your .1 991 gt3 RS in one of these
three colors ('Racing Yellow', 'Black' or 'Miami Blue') if you
were eligible for PTS on your original RS allocation. So in
order to move up your completion date (by several months),
you could forgo your original PTS color request and go with
these 'expedited' colors for the RS. That is apparently what
you did, correct? What is the original color that you gave up
to select 'Racing Yellow' for your RS?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
Actually I did not..... I was going to do GelbGrun, then changed to Racing Yellow before they made the announcement about the three expedited PTS colors. So they had my order for RY very early on.
Is there a list of caliper colors Porsche Exclusive / PTS are offering?
joker: You posted this question at another thread in this forum
but if you don't mind we will try to respond to it here. The short
answer is that 'Porsche Exclusive' doesn't normally offer the option
of giving you a choice in the color of the calipers. The color is
based on the type of brake & model you purchase. In the case
of 918 clients & PCCB, PAG allowed you to choose 'Silver' calipers
as an option (at nearly $3K cost) if you didn't want 'Acid Green'.
There is no such option in lesser models 991 or 981 at Porsche
at present.
****
The long answer to your question can be found below in this
exchange I had with Pete Stout, editor of PCA's Panorama &
formerly of the Porsche enthusiast magazine 'Excellence':
****
Originally Posted by Z356
No, not 'strange' at all. There is a method to their madness...for
sticking to 'Speed Yellow' as their official color for their PCCB!
Porsche has a very distinct policy of 'branding' the color of their
brake calipers to specific categories of performance in most cases.
And because of 'political correctness' in at least one case!
A little history first:
**
1) Porsche introduced the carbon ceramics brakes (PCCB) as
standard on the MY2001 gt2 model & optional on that year's
911 Turbo:
2) Porsche launched 'Speed Yellow' as an exterior offering around
1993/1994. The color remained as a standard offering until 2012,
when it was replaced by 'Racing Yellow', first on the 991 then the
981.
**
3) 'Racing Yellow' will continue for the balance of .2 991 (my guess),
but will probably be replaced with another yellow hue for the next
chassis - e.g. 992. Yet I totally expect 'Speed Yellow' to remain the
color of the 'PCCB' brakes regardless what new 'yellow' exterior color
Porsche chooses to offer next on their future platform or models
(for the most part).
**
4) Porsche decided to paint the calipers of their 'PCCB' in yellow
to differentiate the 'brand' of its top performance brakes. And
it seems to me that they choose 'Speed Yellow' from the beginning,
and decided to stick to that color from then on for 'branding'
purposes...
**
5) And it's 'Speed Yellow' for all PCCBs in the Porsche model range, but
for one* principal exception - the 918 Spyder. So PAG is not interested
whether these brake caliper colors 'match' or 'coordinate' with a vehicle's
chosen color scheme (exterior paint, deviated stitching, deviated seat piping
or deviated color seat belts). It's all about branding the color to the
calipers to a brake performance level for the most part at Porsche!
*The other was the 997 Turbo S 'Edition 918 Spyder'
**
6)) There are only five 'colors' that Porsche uses on their brake
calipers... 'Black', 'Acid Green', 'Silver', 'Speed Yellow' and 'Red'.
Photo shows available brakes on the Porsche Panamera models!
**
7) The one exception is the brakes of their Hybrid models. On the
918, for example, the standard PCCB brakes have calipers painted
in 'Acid Green', the politically-correct brake color for that hybrid
platform. And it's also done for 'branding' purposes.
But for their 918 customers (all VIP by definition) however, PAG made
an exception & allowed customers that didn't want 'Acid Green' on their
calipers to change to just one other color - 'Silver' - at a cost just under
$3K for the privilege of that small modification!
**
8) On their Panamera S - E Hybrid, however, their 'standard' brakes
are painted 'Acid Green':
But even in this Hybrid model, if you order PCCBs, you get 'Speed Yellow'
calipers on your ceramic brakes:
So the 'branding' theme remains - PCCB's as their top performance
brakes, remain painted 'Speed Yellow' even on this hybrid to maintain
the 'brand' image carefully cultivated by Porsche that equates 'Speed
Yellow' calipers with PCCBs!
**
9) It seems that perhaps in the 996 period, PAG honored the request
of some of their VIP customers to paint a different color their PCCB
calipers. Although seldom allowed and extremely costly to do, there
were cases where PAG acceded to these requests.
But in the 997 era (it seems), PAG made a decision NOT to deviate
from the 'standard' color branding scheme they established. Today,
I do not believe PAG will consider painting a PCCB caliper on a 991
or 981 any other color but 'Speed Yellow' at the factory. Same for
the base 'Black' calipers or the 'Red' for the S models! 'Silver'
(some called it 'Titanium') apparently graced some 996 models,
but that practice was soon discarded and to my knowledge there
were no 997s, 987s, 991s or 981's with anything other than the
standard three colors - 'Yellow', 'Red' & 'Black' - with the exception
of the few 'Edition 918 Spyder' 997 Turbo S with 'Acid Green'
calipers on the PCCBs offered to 918 deposit-holders in 2011:
'Silver' calipers on the brakes seems to appear only on some current
models of the Panamera, Cayenne & Macan (don't ask me why!). And
were optional, as previously mentioned, on the 918!
**
10) On one (April 2013) of my visits to 'Porsche Exclusive' in Zuffenhausen,
I specifically asked Boris Apenbrink, Director - Special Vehicles, whether
PAG would consider a request for a deviating color for the brake calipers
on any 991/981 model. And his response was an emphatic 'Nein'. PAG
& 'Porsche Exclusive' had considered the requests for color coordination
for brake calipers and rejected it in favor of faithfully adhering to the
concept of associating a specific color (e.g.. 'Speed Yellow'), with a
specific performance brake (e.g. 'PCCB'). And they were more interested
in that 'mental association with a particular color' than with allowing their
customers to fully customize every painted surface on their vehicle!
**
11) 'Branding' works. Ferrari now offers ceramic brakes as standard
in all of their regular models. But a customer can choose from a few
colors for their calipers. Increasingly, their clients are choosing 'Yellow'
calipers because many of their customers associate 'yellow' with ceramic
brakes. Guess who 'branded' that 'tradition'?
MB 'AMG', BMW 'M' & Audi 'quattro GmbH' have not fallen yet for the
'fad' of using 'Yellow' calipers for their ceramic brakes...but give them
a few years & let's see where it all goes with the yellow caliper craze!
**
Hope I covered the main points...
**
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
*****
Here is Pete's response which I need to comment on
as soon as I have time to do some additional research:
*****
Originally Posted by stout
As always, super informative post and entertaining, too—with
great pics of unusual cars that illustrate your points. Thank you!!
*
Minor detail: I believe the 996 GT2 came in 2001 as a 2002 MY car
(one of the most annoying/confusing practices in the car industry).
Iirc, PCCBs were also tested and available as a retrofit for existing
(2001 MY) 996 Turbos. Also remember the "lifetime of the car"
service life prediction. Uh...
*
For a couple of years (1997-1999 or 2000?), the very light Pastel
Yellow became the standard yellow for the 986, 993 (?), and 996.
Speed Yellow, if available as a "regular" color, was a special color
at a pretty high cost (was it $3k~) iirc—much like today's GT Silver
or Carmine Red in some applications. I recall feeling for those who
paid extra to get Speed Yellow in those years when it became no
cost again for MY 2000 or 2001 (?). I asked a Porsche executive/
designer about this, and his answer was a shrug and something
along the lines of "Sometimes, we wish to communicate with a
certain color."
*
Spot on in terms of their philosophy. The yellow caliper tradition
started just before PCCB, though, with their "top performance
brakes" on the regular production 993 Turbo S. Perhaps it goes
back further, to 964s? Would have to research.
*
I remember looking at three brand new Carrera GTs at Sebring
when they were still new, with two being notable since one was
PTS Rosso Corsa (stunning, for some reason!) and the other was
white with black calipers and tons of white stitching in its black
interior. I believe the calipers were listed at $8k on the window
sticker, with the stitching at $16k—but that's a bit hazy. Per your
comments, this would have been right on the cusp of the 996/
997 era switchover (2005 per MY, a MY when both 996s and
997s existed). I'm not sure I've ever seen another factory PTS
caliper since then. Even my mechanic hates caliper color changes.
Won't do them anymore, so maybe Porsche feels the same way?
*
Was a mid-level thing introduced on the 993 Carrera 4, I think, a
nd continued into the 996 and Cayenne era. But silver calipers
were also used for the Boxster S 550 Edition and then the silver
caliper branding got strange in the 997 C4 era thanks to the
emergence of the 997 Carrera S one rung down. As you note,
it is currently used for S vehicles in some cases where red isn't.
Confusing...
*
Good stuff, as always!
*
Only thing I'll add is my "If I were king for the day" option wish:
Create a single caliper color for a "modest" price ($500? $1000?)
available to anyone who wants it: Metallic gray. That way, it would
signal extra dollars had been spent (branding! Exclusive!), but also
allow people to get the brakes they want without clashing colors.
Cannot confirm, but I've stared at the car in CAlexio's avatar on
more than one occasion. It sure is in line with Müller's 997 RS 4.0,
which was often seen in Zuffenhausen. GT Silver with no stripes,
orange wheels, and orange details. It's one of my 3-4 favorite
997 RS 4.0s, with the others going to Zwart's Dark Sea Blue 4.0,
the Irish (?) 4.0, and the metallic gray 4.0. Porsche still does
some pretty special things, but can be funny. I remember Zwart's
car had graphics delete, but Porsche refused to delete the silver
traces around its front-bumper intakes. Bet that was in the name
of branding, too...
The photo below was pulled from a quick Google search, and was
posted on Rennteam, but it sure looks like a factory press photo—
a theory supported by the S GO press plate on the front bumper.
I'm pretty sure I've seen the car with another plate, but it would
make sense to protect the CEO's identity for a photo such as this.
Müller, when I spoke with him, was crazy about his RS 4.0. I think
he kept it as a personal car.
A little off topic but my Targa GTS in Slate Grey 615 arrived at the dealer this afternoon. I stopped by for a look and it looks as expected. I didn't pull it outside at all, but what you could see/imagine looked great.
Here are a couple of shots, one under light, one in shade. Sadly I only had a 135mm lens with me so no full car shots but it was still 80% covered.
a pity still... that its not available (anymore) black or silver would help a lot on some body colors.
if i just remember this maritime blue 4.0 again:
but i dnk if calipers were PTS or painted afterwards.
There is no color called 'Fuchsitgrünmetallic', either approved or
under feasibility, with PAG at the moment. And there is nothing
with color code Y76 either. That means little. If it's a new formula
for a special color, there is not reason for it to show on the PTS
list since it's not being requested by a customer.
If you are a wise guy, the name of the color itself does lend itself
- ('Fuchsitgrünmetallic') - to be a joked as 'F***-it-Green Metallic',
but I don't know if our Czech friend has this weird sense of humor.
I would not jump to conclusions until someone confirms & verifies
the color information. And it must be someone that has access to
the color code tag of these 991 'factory' Turbos or is an official of
PAG.
^The name translated to English seems plausible: Fuchsite green metallic. I agree, it might very well be a new colour not yet announced (probably not PTS, but just a new colour they were trying out??).
01-08-2016, 05:02 PM
'Pastel Orange' vs 'Gulf Orange' vs 'RS Orange' vs 'Signal Orange'...
