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Why the Shortage of LWB Seats - A Tragedy worthy of play by William Shakespeare?
On his '991RS Review' Rennlister 'Kobalt' posted a very interesting '9troAlliance' RS review by Dr. Ian Kuhn which included the following passage about the LWB seats on the gt3RS (same as in the gt3, gt4 & 981 Spyder):
So we now know something about who makes these seats that was not widely known before. And that there is a real difference between the 918-version of the seat and the one designed specifically for the gt3 (and other gt models)!
"They appear to be identical to the ones in Porsche’s Hybrid supercar, but are not. “Because the placement height and angle of the seats in the two cars are different, the backrest angle is adapted accordingly,” Andeas explained. “Because the padding is optimised for the new angle and the different driving position, the cushions are bespoke as well.”
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Lear is a US multinational company founded in Detroit, Michigan in 1917. It is now a $16 Billion + (sales 2013), with operations in 34 countries and ranked #177 of the Fortune 500.
Here is something Lear is particularly proud of manufacturing for Porsche:
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But here is where it becomes interesting. They have apparently been working in developing this seat for Porsche since well before 2013. In this industry insider interview back in early 2013, three top executives of Lear admit they have been 'developing* full carbon fibre front row seatings systems for...Porsche 911 gt3':
*Developing, in this instance, doesn't equate with designing them. That was the work of Thorsten Klein, who holds the patent with PAG of this seat....as you will read below!
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So far, so good. But why is it that with all this lead time developing & planning production for the gt type LWB seats, Lear can NOT now meet the demand for these LWB seats in the MY2016 gt3, gt3 RS, gt4 and 981 Spyder? This company is a world leader in seating manufacturing! Who is here at fault?
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As I have posted before* on 5/19/2015, but perhaps it merits repeating here, I have a theory on this!
Why the Shortage of LWB Seats?
Originally Posted by sccchiii
I'm being told by family that works at PAG they are considering canceling all LWBs ordering going forward for ALL models rest of year except RS production...unless production constraints can be figured out by suppliers.
Originally Posted by sccchiii
Just hope they figure out a end to the LWB supply/delay disaster that has been going on since GT3 LWB intro.
I debuted at Rennlist doing an analysis of the Boxster Spyder total inventory in the United States back in September of 2010, a number of months after that model had been introduced and started arriving in numbers at dealers all over the US.
In it, I wrote the following related to the Sport Bucket Seats that were available at no cost on that sporty model:
"Besides the unusual high number of unsold Spyders in dealer stock all over the US, the other interesting thing I found was the high number of cars with sport seats (not the lighter buckets) and equipped with a long list of 'weighty' options. Dealers, apparently remembering the intro '09 PDK 4S with buckets which most had a hard time selling due to the seats, have decided to hedge their bets with the more universally 'fitting' Sport Seats. We will see if this turned out to be a wise choice for dealers. Unlike the regular (non-gt3) 911, this Spyder appeals to the purists - the same ones that a generation or two ago bought the original Speedsters (from '55 to '58)!"
I eventually invested in a '12 Spyder with gt2-type sport bucket seats:
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With time, I became quite knowledgeable about the whole psyche of who orders Sport Buckets or LWB...and I have written about it often on this forum. In fact, we broke the story in the US that a new type of sport bucket (LWB) would be offered in the 991 gt3 back on 5/13/2014:
In my opinion, the reason NOW that Porsche underestimated the demand for LWB is that the almost all demand for the '15/'16 gt3, '16 gt3 RS, '16 gt4 & '16 981 Spyder are custom orders by actual enthusiast customers...and not spec orders by dealers. Enthusiasts have always placed a high priority on the gt2-type sport buckets and now the 918-type 'LWB'. When enthusiasts placed orders for the .2 997 gt3, .2 997 gt3 RS, Boxster Spyders and Cayman R, most chose the sport bucket seats. But that was not 'typical'. We were coming out of a recession & the economy was still tentative. So the fact is that most of the orders for those sporty Porsches back then were by dealers on spec...at least here in the US! That is why you had 'sport leather seats' (what you guys now call SOFAS) in the final specs of so many of these .2 997 gt3s, Spyders and Cayman Rs of the period. US Porsche dealers absolutely hated these sport bucket seats...and rarely ordered them unless forced by a determined customer!
The situation NOW is different because almost 100% of these '15/'16 gt3s, '16 RS, '16 gt4s and '16 981 Spyders are, or will be, custom ordered by the enthusiasts...not the dealers. And my guess is that someone dropped the ball at 'product planning' at PCNA and assumed that the current take rate on LWB's would be pretty similar to the one experienced during the .2 997/987 period on similar 'sporty' models of Porsches for the US market.
And thus they misjudged total demand for these LWB seats. PAG, due to faulty projections by PCNA, didn't realistically planned for what the actual take rate is for LWB's in the United States for any of these models - gt3s, RS, gt4s and 981 Spyders. That is why they are in this bind.
There might be other reasons for the shortage of LWBs. But I am pretty certain that 'unanticipated demand' is a large part of the problem!
And the cause of this 'tragedy' rest with PAG, PCNA and its US dealers! In this particular case, with due respects for William Shakespeare's original play, the trouble is not with 'King Lear'!
This theory fits with some thoughts I've been having about the sport car market splitting and going bimodal.
We've been told that Porsche was surprised by the demand for the GT4. On some level you can understand why: statistics tell them that manual cars are not selling well and the Cayman is also struggling. One can extrapolate that a manual only Cayman will sell poorly- if the market is a bell curve it's very far from the center.
But the market isn't a bell curve. There's a large group that wants comfort, drivers assistance, size, etc. Make these cars a bit harder and less friendly and sales will fall off... But make them hard enough and suddenly you find another market- the market that wants race buckets and six points. We generally don't buy off the lot because we don't like the "bell curve" spec, but give us what we want and you'll find that there are quite a lot of us. Far more than Porsche expected, apparently...
By the way…the GT2 buckets were also made by Lear.
....and so were the sport seats in my 2002 996 Turbo.
IIRC, dealer told me P made the switch to Lear with the 996.
All I know is they did not fall apart like the Recaro-sourced sport seats in my 993.
....and so were the sport seats in my 2002 996 Turbo. IIRC, dealer told me P made the switch to Lear with the 996.
All I know is they did not fall apart like the Recaro-sourced sport seats in my 993. Bill
Originally Posted by Serge944
By the way…the GT2 buckets were also made by Lear.
Did not know that. Thanks for the info gentlemen!
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For nostalgia sake, here is something you should all know about RECARO:
Early Reutter Body Badge Found on 356 Pre-A from my memorabilia collection:
356 era Reutter key fobs from same collection:
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Talking about gt2-type sport bucket seats, here is an older article about their construction that I posted in another thread a few days ago:
"For those interested in the composition of these Porsche lighter weight seats, I refer you to this old article below dated 11/2007. Although the specific subject of it pertains to the previously available gt2-type we had in our North American market from the introduction of the MY2008 gt2 to the end of the .2 997/987 in MY2012, the particulars of the internal construction probably apply as well to the current 'fixed back/non-folding' 918-type LWB!"
And Mike had this interesting to say about its content which we should pursue further:
Originally Posted by Mike in CA
Very interesting Eduardo. Thanks.
I do think the text in the final photo may need clarification or correction. If the GT2 buckets are being compared to the standard 4 way seats with power backrest and height adjustment, the TOTAL weight difference for both seats combined is about 20 pounds, not twenty pounds each.
Great story and thanks for putting it together! I really liked the back story on Recaro. The combining words naming schema (Re + caro) reminds me of Adidas (Adi + das from Adolf "Adi" Dassler) and his brother Rudolf (Ru + Da, subsequently Puma, the rival shoe company set up across the Aurach river)! Seems like us North Americans have picked up this quirky (?German) habit, especially when it comes to celebrity names and couples: think JLo, Brangelina, Kimye, etc.
05-27-2015, 10:55 PM
Why the Shortage of LWB Seats - A Tragedy worthy of play by William Shakespeare?
