991 GT3 production ending
#46
Rennlist Member
Porsche is not stupid. Niche cars like the GT3 are NOT money makers. Sure, they make some, but it's not a cash cow like some of their other models. They are smart to make slightly less than demand because:
a) It keeps the excitement, value, and exclusivity of these cars up
b) They won't make much money buy selling several hundred/few thousand more of the cars anyway. Their resources are better spent on the high volume/profit cars
c) The enthusiast pool is very small, and it dries up QUICKLY. There's tons of excitement at first. Enthusiasts line up to buy right away because that's the way we are, and then all of the sudden nobody is left. The BRZ/FRS is a great example. Mass market, highly praised car. Dealers are selling above MRSP, and people are on wait lists for the first year the car was on sale. Now they are rotting on lots, selling below invoice, and considered a sales failure because 'regular car buyers' think the car is a horrible value to him. At this point, all of the people that really wanted one have one, and many have moved on to something else.
.
a) It keeps the excitement, value, and exclusivity of these cars up
b) They won't make much money buy selling several hundred/few thousand more of the cars anyway. Their resources are better spent on the high volume/profit cars
c) The enthusiast pool is very small, and it dries up QUICKLY. There's tons of excitement at first. Enthusiasts line up to buy right away because that's the way we are, and then all of the sudden nobody is left. The BRZ/FRS is a great example. Mass market, highly praised car. Dealers are selling above MRSP, and people are on wait lists for the first year the car was on sale. Now they are rotting on lots, selling below invoice, and considered a sales failure because 'regular car buyers' think the car is a horrible value to him. At this point, all of the people that really wanted one have one, and many have moved on to something else.
.
Beyond the track specific hardening, suspension work, lower gearing, improved engine power, and vastly improved PDK........part of the excitement for the 991 GT3 is its relatively rarity, and that owning a GT3 buys you membership in a select group of Porsche true sports car enthusiasts.....compared to just buying a regular 911, that anyone can buy any day of the week, in any town with over 200,000 population in the USA.
This exclusivity is a big reason why GT3 values hold up better over time compared to regular 911s and 911 turbos.
I love everything else about the 991 GT3, but knowing that I would take much less of a depreciation hit, than the guys buying turbos and regular 911s, made my decision much easier to pull the trigger on a GT3.
I know it's selfish, but I'm very happy that that 991 GT3 production will be stopped for 18-24 months as of Feb 2015, if the rumors are true.
GT3 depreciation will be limited. This is just as useful as the compensation checks that Porsche will be sending out.
#47
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Excuse me but don't shoot the messengers mate! I hope I have not misunderstood you.
#48
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
It's was Pardini. He has been very straight with me all along. If you order a car it's Msrp. Others are going for a premium. And to be clear, I don't think the car is available.
At this point I'm not holding my breath I'll get a gt3. Have to see what a RS turns out to be.
At this point I'm not holding my breath I'll get a gt3. Have to see what a RS turns out to be.
dont be so sure that if you ordered one it's msrp. until the car is IN YOUR garage, i trust no one.
#49
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Just my 2p worth regarding some comments that have been floated.
IMO, not everyone who has a GT3 wants an GT3 RS. The RS may just be too hardcore for many, including myself. As far as values of GT3's dropping because of the RS?...IMO not really. Of course over time values will be affected, that goes for all of these cars. If anyone thinks these are investments or that they will not loose money on them, they need to think again. I do however feel that the GT3 and RS will depreciate less than the average 911.
IMO, not everyone who has a GT3 wants an GT3 RS. The RS may just be too hardcore for many, including myself. As far as values of GT3's dropping because of the RS?...IMO not really. Of course over time values will be affected, that goes for all of these cars. If anyone thinks these are investments or that they will not loose money on them, they need to think again. I do however feel that the GT3 and RS will depreciate less than the average 911.
#50
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Belmont Shore in Long Beach CA
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Well, I do not think the news will be good either on the GT3RS. This will be even more difficult to get because all the 918 guys get first dibs at this, as well, and any future models. My dealer who got like 9 GT3s thinks they will only get 2 RSs. You will see a lot of these cars going over MSRP because if some of the 918 guys flip them back then some dealers will certainly will mark them up.
As for the 991 GT3 depreciating. Sure , most cars do but they will hold up quite well like the 997 did. That I would put money on and I did not buy this with that thought in mind. I am so glad I hung in there with the 991 GT3. My dealer told my repeatedly do not cancel and have faith in Porsche you will not regret it. Those that cancelled hoping to get a new allocation on a 2015 might no be too lucky.
I will also say now you will start seeing these cars that are marked up $10,000-$20,000 starting to sell just like before the "stop sale"
As for the 991 GT3 depreciating. Sure , most cars do but they will hold up quite well like the 997 did. That I would put money on and I did not buy this with that thought in mind. I am so glad I hung in there with the 991 GT3. My dealer told my repeatedly do not cancel and have faith in Porsche you will not regret it. Those that cancelled hoping to get a new allocation on a 2015 might no be too lucky.
I will also say now you will start seeing these cars that are marked up $10,000-$20,000 starting to sell just like before the "stop sale"
Since Porsche is owned by VW now, as it was when the .2 RS came out, they, Porsche, more than likely will produce enough 991 GT3 RS's to satisfy demand. As for starting back up Vanilla GT3 production again who knows. I would like to think they will because for one I don't have an allocation. And even though I believe they will build enough RS's to go around no one outside of Porsche production and planning can answer that question.
Besides, beyond a very small number of examples, Porsche is not like Ferrari in the Idea of build One less than! With any of the 145 versions of any 997.1 and 997.2 911 that was built only the Platinum, what was production just 3 (?), and the Speedster, what was total production on that model - less than 200 (could be way off, but it wasn't for US sale anyway), they for the most part don't do the limited edition models. And for that matter does anyone know if they finally sold out all of 918 production yet?
Bottom line hysteria of limited RS production will cause them to be sold at a Premium to most buyers. Only time will tell if "Enough" are produced to satisfy total demand, and/or then some. That and if they will just stop production of the non RS completely or not.
And then, before the RS arrives, we can also see what the 997 GT3 marketS will do? Hold steady or eventually deflated to pre stop sale values. Only time will tell...
#52
But, in the end, they sold all of them and value held up nicely also as a bonus. Part of it is bc Porsche is making 918, not 375 or 399 like McLaren and Ferrari. And they will eventually sell out, make their money, AND all / most of the R&D will earn a multiple as it trickles down to the rest of the model lines.
#53
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Belmont Shore in Long Beach CA
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I'm wrong about the 997.2 Speedster Porsche sold them in the US right?!
What was the name of the limited production 997.2 that had the little "Gurney Bubbles" on the roof that was not imported tp the US?
What was the name of the limited production 997.2 that had the little "Gurney Bubbles" on the roof that was not imported tp the US?
#54
Burning Brakes
The car you are thinking about is the "Sport Classic Carrera". There are only 4 in the US at this time.
#55
Race Director
#56
Rennlist Member
In the last 15 years has Porsche ever built a GT3 RS without the base model GT3? This makes no sense from a manufacturing operations point of view- in other words stop production of the volume model to focus on the limited production model. Even if the main difference between the GT3 and RS and the base 911 is really just the powertrain, it seems improbable to me and will just drive up Porsche's cost on all the RS they sell.
#58
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West Vancouver and San Francisco
Posts: 4,282
Received 1,265 Likes
on
616 Posts
In % terms (and of course absolute terms too), the MSRP of the GT3 went up way more than other variants from 997.2 in it's last year to 991 -
GT3 - $14k, 12% increase.
Others:
C2 - 4.3k, 5.5% increase
C2S - 5.9k, 6.51%
C2 cab - 4.9k, 5.5%
C2S cab - 6.5k, 6.4%
C4 - 5.6k, 6.59%
C4S - 7.3k, 7.45%
C4 cab - 6.4k, 6.66%
C4S cab - 8.1k, 7.43%
I did this calculation long back trying to predict the 991 GT3 MSRP - https://rennlist.com/forums/10069601-post209.html
GT3 - $14k, 12% increase.
Others:
C2 - 4.3k, 5.5% increase
C2S - 5.9k, 6.51%
C2 cab - 4.9k, 5.5%
C2S cab - 6.5k, 6.4%
C4 - 5.6k, 6.59%
C4S - 7.3k, 7.45%
C4 cab - 6.4k, 6.66%
C4S cab - 8.1k, 7.43%
I did this calculation long back trying to predict the 991 GT3 MSRP - https://rennlist.com/forums/10069601-post209.html
#60
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Belmont Shore in Long Beach CA
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
For other models, did you look at increases between back-to-back model years or with the same 3.5 year gap GT3 had? I think the gap in production years can explain much of the bigger increase for GT3. Also, the 991 GT3 is really nicely equipped in base version. I've just compared it to a base 911 (not S) optioned to well over $100K, and my almost base GT3 was still more nicely equipped. I don't know if the same was true for previous generation, but it's good value in my view.