GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing
09-13-2018, 06:17 PM
#436
Rennlist Member
So now most of the cars out there are being sold by individuals who bought with the intention of flipping. That would happen with direct sales from the factory even more.
So the flipper is the one that's going to benefit?? PCNA would rather have their dealers benefit and not lose the ACE card they hold against dealers.
Only solution >> MAKE MORE CARS
Porsche won't do it because they lose their dealer incentive package. PCNA only cares about pushing car sales. The bread and butter ones. Macan, Cayenne, Panny, and the electric junk they have on the way. GT cars are just icing on the cake and a dealer bonus program.
So the flipper is the one that's going to benefit?? PCNA would rather have their dealers benefit and not lose the ACE card they hold against dealers.
Only solution >> MAKE MORE CARS
Porsche won't do it because they lose their dealer incentive package. PCNA only cares about pushing car sales. The bread and butter ones. Macan, Cayenne, Panny, and the electric junk they have on the way. GT cars are just icing on the cake and a dealer bonus program.
09-13-2018, 06:23 PM
#438
Porsche makes enough GT cars to meet demand. It’s dealerships that are controlling supply. We all know dealers are ordering their own cars eventhought GT cars require a real customer attached to it. Porsche it’s fine with it because dealers either make more and can take a greater hit on other models or force customers to become “loyal” by buying cars sitting on the lot.
09-13-2018, 06:29 PM
#439
Instructor
Porsche makes enough GT cars to meet demand. It’s dealerships that are controlling supply. We all know dealers are ordering their own cars eventhought GT cars require a real customer attached to it. Porsche it’s fine with it because dealers either make more and can take a greater hit on other models or force customers to become “loyal” by buying cars sitting on the lot.
And then they flip them back and forth between dealers to keep the sales flows moving.
09-13-2018, 06:30 PM
#440
Ferrari has a pretty decent system in place where they don't allow dealers to sell over MSRP. Dealers do get around that by making you buy a bloated version of their less desirable cars sometimes especially if you are not their top customer. However you will always get to build your own for the car you want and not someone else's idea of a good resale spec. Dealers can also not sell to you (new cars) if they are not your local dealer, this way there is less "auctioning it out to the highest bidder". There is controversy about their dealer games with Ferrari, but its still not as crazy as Porsche GT cars imo.
09-13-2018, 06:36 PM
#441
Ferrari has a pretty decent system in place where they don't allow dealers to sell over MSRP. Dealers do get around that by making you buy a bloated version of their less desirable cars sometimes especially if you are not their top customer. However you will always get to build your own for the car you want and not someone else's idea of a good resale spec. Dealers can also not sell to you (new cars) if they are not your local dealer, this way there is less "auctioning it out to the highest bidder". There is controversy about their dealer games with Ferrari, but its still not as crazy as Porsche GT cars imo.
I understand for limited edition models that FNA decides which customers are eligible and not the local dealer. For example, my dealer had to submit a written petition on behalf of a customer to qualify for a TdF purchase to FNA.
09-13-2018, 06:43 PM
#442
Rennlist Member
Ferrari has a pretty decent system in place where they don't allow dealers to sell over MSRP. Dealers do get around that by making you buy a bloated version of their less desirable cars sometimes especially if you are not their top customer. However you will always get to build your own for the car you want and not someone else's idea of a good resale spec. Dealers can also not sell to you (new cars) if they are not your local dealer, this way there is less "auctioning it out to the highest bidder". There is controversy about their dealer games with Ferrari, but its still not as crazy as Porsche GT cars imo.
Buy an FF for $350k and I'll let you buy and spec a brand new 458 Speciale. Maybe the $50k ADM for an RS doesn't sound so bad...lol
But their loyal customers who have been buying for years and keep a few along the way get treated pretty well. Every time a new model comes out they have a good shot at getting the latest and greatest...at MSRP and without buying anything else.
09-13-2018, 06:50 PM
#443
I also had to sign a written agreement guaranteeing Right of first refusal to my dealer for 18 or 24 months which is similar to the Ford GT system.
I understand for limited edition models that FNA decides which customers are eligible and not the local dealer. For example, my dealer had to submit a written petition on behalf of a customer to qualify for a TdF purchase to FNA.
I understand for limited edition models that FNA decides which customers are eligible and not the local dealer. For example, my dealer had to submit a written petition on behalf of a customer to qualify for a TdF purchase to FNA.
I'm pretty familiar with Ferraris system and agree... its got its pro's and con's.
Buy an FF for $350k and I'll let you buy and spec a brand new 458 Speciale. Maybe the $50k ADM for an RS doesn't sound so bad...lol
But their loyal customers who have been buying for years and keep a few along the way get treated pretty well. Every time a new model comes out they have a good shot at getting the latest and greatest...at MSRP and without buying anything else.
Buy an FF for $350k and I'll let you buy and spec a brand new 458 Speciale. Maybe the $50k ADM for an RS doesn't sound so bad...lol
But their loyal customers who have been buying for years and keep a few along the way get treated pretty well. Every time a new model comes out they have a good shot at getting the latest and greatest...at MSRP and without buying anything else.
50k ADM for Porsche literally gets you no value, seems like it wont even put you up higher on the list for the next one as dealers just want to sell to the highest bidder. Even worse is sometimes it goes to 3rd party dealer that literally brings no value to the transaction.
09-13-2018, 06:51 PM
#444
Three Wheelin'
There are real VIP Porsche customers who buy multiple Porsches year in and year out, without owning a 918 Spyder.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
I'm pretty familiar with Ferraris system and agree... its got its pro's and con's.
Buy an FF for $350k and I'll let you buy and spec a brand new 458 Speciale. Maybe the $50k ADM for an RS doesn't sound so bad...lol
But their loyal customers who have been buying for years and keep a few along the way get treated pretty well. Every time a new model comes out they have a good shot at getting the latest and greatest...at MSRP and without buying anything else.
Buy an FF for $350k and I'll let you buy and spec a brand new 458 Speciale. Maybe the $50k ADM for an RS doesn't sound so bad...lol
But their loyal customers who have been buying for years and keep a few along the way get treated pretty well. Every time a new model comes out they have a good shot at getting the latest and greatest...at MSRP and without buying anything else.
09-13-2018, 07:03 PM
#445
I think buying more cars from them will motivate the dealer to petition for you though haha. but yeah you have to at least be an established customer, not just the highest bidder. I think it also helps with exclusivity and brand image.
IDK, in the Ferrari system at least you get to drive around in an awesome FF/Lusso while waiting for your car to arrive...you might take a bigger bath than 50k when you trade it in but at least you get a car.
50k ADM for Porsche literally gets you no value, seems like it wont even put you up higher on the list for the next one as dealers just want to sell to the highest bidder. Even worse is sometimes it goes to 3rd party dealer that literally brings no value to the transaction.
IDK, in the Ferrari system at least you get to drive around in an awesome FF/Lusso while waiting for your car to arrive...you might take a bigger bath than 50k when you trade it in but at least you get a car.
50k ADM for Porsche literally gets you no value, seems like it wont even put you up higher on the list for the next one as dealers just want to sell to the highest bidder. Even worse is sometimes it goes to 3rd party dealer that literally brings no value to the transaction.
Porsche feels like it's new to the game when it comes to this system while Ferrari has been doing it forever with the F1 heritage and brand mystique/recognition.
Agree with your last comment, at least as a new buyer you get to drive a Portofino while waiting for your 488 Spider that you get to spec yourself. Then when the next generation comes out you will be higher up the ladder for that.
With Porsche, you can often jump in front by paying the highest ADM based on experiences shared here and past Porsche purchases don't seem to always translate to being first in line for GT allocations.
09-13-2018, 07:06 PM
#446
Let's just go Tesla model with Porsche in general, cut out the middle man(franchisee), would save a ton of headache and Porsche would make more money. The funny thing is most buyers in general would pay more to just be treated right, that's all we want.
09-13-2018, 07:09 PM
#447
Rennlist Member
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As soon as Porsche decides to make more GT cars there will be outrage at the dilution of the GT car “brand”. They won’t be special, any poseur can have one, Porsche has lost the sports car market, etc, etc, etc. If you distill the cumulative wants/desires/expectations expressed on this forum the result is to walk into any unknown dealer, immediately order an exclusive car at a price considered fair (list or below), and once that has been accomplished have supply sufficiently limited to preserve the value and exclusivity of car.
What should be SPECIAL about a DAMN car is the CAR ITSELF. Not how HARD it is to get.
Many guys are more worried about saying they have an "EXCLUSIVE" car than actually owning one. Buy one, let them sit around with 200 miles and then sell them for the next Rennlist intro posting.
Many guys are more worried about saying they have an "EXCLUSIVE" car than actually owning one. Buy one, let them sit around with 200 miles and then sell them for the next Rennlist intro posting.
Friend of mine specced and bought a .1 GT3, drove it a few hundred miles over many months, and sold back to the dealer. Did the same thing with a .2 GT3 in order to get a .2 RS allocation, and he probably won't drive that either. So that's three cars hardly driven, and specced by someone who won't drive them. And he's a good guy too. That isn't how this car ownership thing is supposed to work.
09-13-2018, 07:10 PM
#448
I'm a bottom dweller compared to the whales who've bought 20+ new F-cars over their lifetime. They get the Pista Spider and 812 Monza and deservably so.
Porsche feels like it's new to the game when it comes to this system while Ferrari has been doing it forever with the F1 heritage and brand mystique/recognition.
Agree with your last comment, at least as a new buyer you get to drive a Portofino while waiting for your 488 Spider that you get to spec yourself. Then when the next generation comes out you will be higher up the ladder for that.
With Porsche, you can often jump in front by paying the highest ADM based on experiences shared here and past Porsche purchases don't seem to always translate to being first in line for GT allocations.
Porsche feels like it's new to the game when it comes to this system while Ferrari has been doing it forever with the F1 heritage and brand mystique/recognition.
Agree with your last comment, at least as a new buyer you get to drive a Portofino while waiting for your 488 Spider that you get to spec yourself. Then when the next generation comes out you will be higher up the ladder for that.
With Porsche, you can often jump in front by paying the highest ADM based on experiences shared here and past Porsche purchases don't seem to always translate to being first in line for GT allocations.
09-13-2018, 07:14 PM
#449
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I actually think an application process could work. Everyone applies, limit one per customer. You would have a sponsoring dealer (which would factor into who gets a car too). Prior porsches owned, sold and when, age, other cars, miles driven etc. Basically what Ford did with the GT and what Ferrari does with special cars. The problem is, I don’t think anyone here would be too happy with the outcome. The guys with a new panny turbo and cayenne turbo and six previous GT cars would get the slots.
And the bottom line is, other than the 2RS, the ADM premium is about 10%, which is not that much or crazy. In fact, if you started out at the beginning of this and were happy with $10k over, you probably would have gotten a GT3 allocation, at $15k over certainly (like Sam picked up from an ad here on RL). I mean, I remember getting mocked a bit for saying I wanted a PTS GT3 and how to get it, but its worked out fine, and I am no one special.
09-13-2018, 07:19 PM
#450
Rennlist Member
There is no supply issue with Porsche GT cars. It's fake scarcity. It's as manufactured as the cars themselves. A local dealer to me has SIX (6) GT2RS incoming. These things aren't rare. They aren't hard to get. It's just built into the business model so the buying public (us) think these things are all the rage. GT3.2 allocations are STILL available. It's freakin' September. There's 3 months left in the year and these cars are supposed to be 2018 MY only. Gimme a break. There are GT3 sitting on dealer lots right now across the country and I'm to believe they are hard to get? Ha! The GT2RS is the ultimate Porsche right now. So how does a dealership in a local market next to like 5 other dealers within 30 minutes of any directions get SIX GT2RS? And I bet they got at least $150K over MSRP for each one and each buyer thinks they're the only guy to get one in town. Same for the new GT3RS. Same dealer has 4-5 incoming.
Show up to any HPDE at any given track on any given day and you're going to see tons of GT cars. How is that possible, these things are soooooo hard to get /Sarcasm.
Show up to any HPDE at any given track on any given day and you're going to see tons of GT cars. How is that possible, these things are soooooo hard to get /Sarcasm.
Disagree about GT3.2 allocations. There are very very few customizable .2 GT3 allocations remaning in the USA.