Saying Goodbye to my Golf Blue .2GT3
08-02-2018, 08:27 PM
#61
Racer
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, NYC, Zurich
Posts: 393
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There’s not a single individual on Rennlist who is more overly obnoxious about flippers, dealers and free market pricing than Martin. Not only that, but his countless nonsensical proclamations about who “deserves” a GT car and who doesn’t littered this forum for two years.
Dealers should be able to sell to whomever they want for any price they want, and owners should be able to buy, sell and make whatever decisions they want, as well. That’s not the issue here. The issue is the hypocrisy.
I’m relieved to see so many individuals now support free market decisions and free market pricing, because there has been a constant bashing of dealers and individuals on Rennlist for the past two years - and one could argue Martin was the centerpiece of it.
I’m happy to see the “evil flippers” conversation finally jump the shark with Martin soaring through the air.
08-02-2018, 08:41 PM
#62
Exactly!
There’s not a single individual on Rennlist who is more overly obnoxious about flippers, dealers and free market pricing than Martin. Not only that, but his countless nonsensical proclamations about who “deserves” a GT car and who doesn’t littered this forum for two years.
Dealers should be able to sell to whomever they want for any price they want, and owners should be able to buy, sell and make whatever decisions they want, as well. That’s not the issue here. The issue is the hypocrisy.
I’m relieved to see so many individuals now support free market decisions and free market pricing, because there has been a constant bashing of dealers and individuals on Rennlist for the past two years - and one could argue Martin was the centerpiece of it.
I’m happy to see the “evil flippers” conversation finally jump the shark with Martin soaring through the air.
Geez. You guys are making it seem like he’s profiting. $175k car plus 6.25% sales tax plus full expel $5500 plus paint correction $1000 plus ceramic $2500. That’s $194k ish. Add $5k for negotiating room to get what you spent (cash out of the account) = $zero profit. Don’t see what the issue is at all.
08-02-2018, 08:45 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Geez. You guys are making it seem like he’s profiting. $175k car plus 6.25% sales tax plus full expel $5500 plus paint correction $1000 plus ceramic $2500. That’s $194k ish. Add $5k for negotiating room to get what you spent (cash out of the account) = $zero profit. Don’t see what the issue is at all.
08-02-2018, 08:52 PM
#64
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Geez. You guys are making it seem like he’s profiting. $175k car plus 6.25% sales tax plus full expel $5500 plus paint correction $1000 plus ceramic $2500. That’s $194k ish. Add $5k for negotiating room to get what you spent (cash out of the account) = $zero profit. Don’t see what the issue is at all.
08-02-2018, 08:53 PM
#65
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Archimedes
Great looking car. Shame the same folks show up to start an argument over nothing.
i think Golf Blue looks best in low light, like a cloudy day. Has such a really deep hue to it in that light.
i think Golf Blue looks best in low light, like a cloudy day. Has such a really deep hue to it in that light.
08-02-2018, 08:58 PM
#66
I don’t blame Martin. I suspect many will be playing their own version of this game with the 3 to 3RS allocation. A “friend” is being forced to play the same game.
08-02-2018, 08:58 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
Lets see.... buys lots of cars, drives all his cars, tracks all his cars, didn't drive 1 car (this one), sells it, and that is a flipper? I know the $ and arrangement and all said and done PNH is the only one making any money here on this deal. Maybe it would have made you feel better if he sold it privately for MSRP? But didn't he have a deal with John at PNH and fact is, he's respecting the deal?
Some like me, choose to not play it, we go chase old ****. Or wait until all the pettiness has gotten out of peoples systems and buy the damaged goods.
As posted above, don't hate the player, hate the game.
Some like me, choose to not play it, we go chase old ****. Or wait until all the pettiness has gotten out of peoples systems and buy the damaged goods.
As posted above, don't hate the player, hate the game.
08-02-2018, 09:09 PM
#68
Racer
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, NYC, Zurich
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
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Lets see.... buys lots of cars, drives all his cars, tracks all his cars, didn't drive 1 car (this one), sells it, and that is a flipper? I know the $ and arrangement and all said and done PNH is the only one making any money here on this deal. Maybe it would have made you feel better if he sold it privately for MSRP? But didn't he have a deal with John at PNH and fact is, he's respecting the deal?
Some like me, choose to not play it, we go chase old ****. Or wait until all the pettiness has gotten out of peoples systems and buy the damaged goods.
As posted above, don't hate the player, hate the game.
Some like me, choose to not play it, we go chase old ****. Or wait until all the pettiness has gotten out of peoples systems and buy the damaged goods.
As posted above, don't hate the player, hate the game.
I hate the overt hypocrisy and double standards.
08-02-2018, 09:15 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
Just let the dealer list the car in the classifieds where anyone who wants one can find it without making a big 'look at me' drama show out of it on this sub-forum.
Sheesh.
08-02-2018, 09:21 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
Of PNH?
I know Martin pretty well, for many years... his feedback is centered at: dealers that wouldn't even entertain a relationship discussion, which he is/was pretty damn transparent about, dealers that won't sell new cars at MSRP to anyone, and individuals that buy and immediately sell at a 'profit' (flippers).
So which hypocrisy and double standard are you referring to?
As for John, well, he's doing exactly as he should. I know how I treat my customers who spend millions of $ with me.
oh yeah cw, grabbed this one for you while at the moma in madrid. Your favorite artist!
08-02-2018, 09:32 PM
#71
Three Wheelin'
Interesting statements here. Capitalism at its best. Some fallacies also. Dealer claims USC has spent over $1mm with them, Sounds like a fallacy. If the cars go back to the dealer THEN they have sold nothing. Let see I pay my dealer $175k for a car. After 6 months or so I decided to bid adieu to the car. The dealer has dibs on the car so it goes back to them. The dealer then gives me $175k (assuming the deal is at msrp). That means the dealer got $175 in and paid $175 out, in simple math that equals ZERO. So it looks like like a sale on paper but it really is a rental for USC. Change cars frequenly? I would say it could be a good deal.
08-02-2018, 09:35 PM
#72
Lots of sour grapes over nothing. Sure enjoyed driving my Pcar today. Gonna trade it in when my GT3 arrives (back PNH !! LOL). Love those guys and they are a straight up dealer no matter what the jealous haters dream up. Flack jacket is on!
08-02-2018, 09:38 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
Interesting statements here. Capitalism at its best. Some fallacies also. Dealer claims USC has spent over $1mm with them, Sounds like a fallacy. If the cars go back to the dealer THEN they have sold nothing. Let see I pay my dealer $175k for a car. After 6 months or so I decided to bid adieu to the car. The dealer has dibs on the car so it goes back to them. The dealer then gives me $175k (assuming the deal is at msrp). That means the dealer got $175 in and paid $175 out, in simple math that equals ZERO. So it looks like like a sale on paper but it really is a rental for USC. Change cars frequenly? I would say it could be a good deal.
PNH made money on original sale (msrp - cost, or for you finance types: (revenue - cost) / Revenue = margin)
They'll make a few bux on the resale
and if you're the sales rep, you're making a few bux commission each transaction, whatever your comp plan says.
So while say 200k is changing hands, the profit is substantially smaller, and mostly with the dealer.
But the buyer, Martin in this case, he doesn't have a profit motive, he just wants to drive cool ****
Oh, and one more thing. Based on all the stuff he buys, I can absolutely tell you there is no profit motive on the car side of things. You ever see how hard a cayenne depreciates!?!?! PAINFUL! I have one!
08-02-2018, 09:45 PM
#74
Nordschleife Master
**EDITED
Can someone explain to me why a dealer would bother?
Let's use some arbitrary numbers:
Scenario 1:
MSRP 100k. Dealer profit on MSRP car is 20% or 20k.
Dealer sells car for 100k. Net profit is 20k
Customer sells car back to dealer for 100k. Net profit is now zero because dealer had to spend that 20k profit to buy back
Dealer sells that car for 120k. Net profit now 40k
Scenario 2:
Dealer sells 100k MSRP car for 120k. Net profit is 40k.
How is the customer in scenario 1 helping the dealer?
Can someone explain to me why a dealer would bother?
Let's use some arbitrary numbers:
Scenario 1:
MSRP 100k. Dealer profit on MSRP car is 20% or 20k.
Dealer sells car for 100k. Net profit is 20k
Customer sells car back to dealer for 100k. Net profit is now zero because dealer had to spend that 20k profit to buy back
Dealer sells that car for 120k. Net profit now 40k
Scenario 2:
Dealer sells 100k MSRP car for 120k. Net profit is 40k.
How is the customer in scenario 1 helping the dealer?
Last edited by orthojoe; 08-02-2018 at 10:35 PM. Reason: math error! LOL
08-02-2018, 09:58 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
You're missing something.
PNH made money on original sale (msrp - cost, or for you finance types: (revenue - cost) / Revenue = margin)
They'll make a few bux on the resale
and if you're the sales rep, you're making a few bux commission each transaction, whatever your comp plan says.
So while say 200k is changing hands, the profit is substantially smaller, and mostly with the dealer.
But the buyer, Martin in this case, he doesn't have a profit motive, he just wants to drive cool ****
Oh, and one more thing. Based on all the stuff he buys, I can absolutely tell you there is no profit motive on the car side of things. You ever see how hard a cayenne depreciates!?!?! PAINFUL! I have one!
PNH made money on original sale (msrp - cost, or for you finance types: (revenue - cost) / Revenue = margin)
They'll make a few bux on the resale
and if you're the sales rep, you're making a few bux commission each transaction, whatever your comp plan says.
So while say 200k is changing hands, the profit is substantially smaller, and mostly with the dealer.
But the buyer, Martin in this case, he doesn't have a profit motive, he just wants to drive cool ****
Oh, and one more thing. Based on all the stuff he buys, I can absolutely tell you there is no profit motive on the car side of things. You ever see how hard a cayenne depreciates!?!?! PAINFUL! I have one!