khooni

afshin,

the control weights are lighter in the CR than in the spyder. It's subtle but you can pick it up. It makes a difference when you drive using your forefinger and thumb only. I know it's strange. my spyder is no heavyweight... PCCB/non ac/buckets/LiON battery

but the stiffness is apparent and so is the feeling of greater precision. It's very strange. The UK mags are all over the CR and the U.S mags are all over the spyder.... I think porsche must have a hand in influencing these proceedings. The CR won autocar car of the year in 2011 and very nearly won it again this year (2nd place)... the spyder wasn't even mentioned in 2010... nor in 2011.

at least MT used a token PDK CR. Anyway, I digress. The CR is a fab car and easy to reach the limits of and doesn't bite. well, if you have PSM on it helps..The transition from turn in understeer to oversteer (ie when you corner at high speeds or rather liftoff oversteer ) is quck but catchable and all other responses are crisp and delightful. The steering is light and full of feel and the rear dances.....

the car also has very little insulation in the back and you can hear stoines pinging all the time.. IE loud inside and the standard exhaust sounds way more committed in the CR than the spyder.. I have the PSE though. In short, you need to test drive one and if you auto-cross (that's an ugly sport to me) or track, this would be the way to go. yes, confusing the lighter car feels heavier.......


as I type this... i ask myself why would i sell it...well, the gen 2.gt3 has depreciated substantially and a decent example has come up... Orthojoe's comments re the brake pedal has scared me a bit but pending a test drive on a non-PCCB example, i'll comment on that later..


I must be the only person I know that has PCCB and doesn't like them for non-track use.....

almsdriver

I have a 997.1 GT3 at the moment and will probably upgrade to a 997.2 GT3 or the new 991 GT3 if it's out by that time. I also daily drive my 997 and do occasional track days throughout the year. Couldn't be happier. GT3RS is unnecessary for my purposes. 997.2 seems to be better all around. My 0.02$

the_vetman

Huh? GT3's brake pedal is firm and excellent. Actually, so is everything else - clutch, shifter, etc.

Bill has an excellent point though - you can save a whole bunch of $$ (uh, quid) by track-modding one of your 987s and be just as quick as a GT3.

orthojoe

He prefers a softer/mushy brake pedal. I think he'll change his mind once he tracks a GT3 with a proper brake pedal.

Marine Blue

khooni thank you for the very detailed reply and explanation. I could definitely see why you would want the CR over the Spyder based upon your experience. But I still wonder if some of the difference in the heaviness could be attributed to tire pressures and suspension settings. I know from my own experience that changing the alignment on a car has a significant impact on how it feels at low and high speeds. It just seems odd that you would think the Spyder feels heavier when its not.

khooni

ahh... that old chestnut. ok..here goes.....

It is not that i want a mushy pedal, it's the linearity and long travel i want. As alluded to me by SFO, Chris Harris once mentioned this when testing a 7.2 rs against the 458. [Check out the video, it's awesome.], that the pedal placement in a gt3 is such that the brake pedal is placed much higher than the throttle which makes heel/toe difficult and is the only bad point he can think of in a 7.2 rs. when it came time for him to buy a 4.0 rs, he didn't spec PCCBs. I think the brakes influenced his decision as well.

my bug bear is all about heel/toe and my desire to master it ie multiple downshifts all under heel/toe in one smooth, continuous braking effort. I am getting a test drive in SFO's gt3 this week and potentially at another dealer to try and see if this will be a problem for me. To me, not being able to heel/toe at every downshift and make the perfect blip is an annoyance {more than missing the apex, Joe}. Granted, at track days, a shorter brake pedal is not so much an issue because you are so committed to the corner but if you want to practise on the road and in daily driving, it is. Yup, i know get the PDK and problem solved......... then i can concentrate on left foot braking.............

khooni

The spyder could be out of alignment. I had it aligned on delivery and it now has 5,000 miles. I will give it a check in the summer to make sure everything is in order.

BUT, i don't think it is the alignment. If your local Porsche dealer has a CR, try and see if you can bag a test drive but be sure to drive the spyder there and then tell me. Look, the CR is a closed coupe with a stiffer shell, it is not surprising given the other virtually same hardware that it is a better drive is it? In any case, I'd love for someone else to disagree with me on this. I dun care who wins at the moment because i own both

I thank everyone for contributing to this thread because it is a hard but quality problem that i have. Right now, I am leaning towards keeping the CR/spyder for another wonderful track season.........

stevecolletti

I'm pretty sure that all the 997.2s GT3s have CL wheels. Make sure you check the threads in the GT3 forum on the various issues they've had.

Marine Blue

I also expect the CR to have better handling due to the stiffer chassis and I can see your point about it responding to smaller inputs for the same reason. But the heavier feel eludes me and the only thing that I immediately think of is the alignment. With regards to the alignment being off, I do believe 5K miles including some track driving can change the alignment so I do think it is worth checking to prove me wrong.

I know I look forward to reading your impressions of the two GT3's after you test drive them.

orthojoe

Khooni, I still firmly believe that you will have an easier time doing multiple heel/toe downshifts at the track with the firm pedal a GT3 has. Yes, it will be more difficult to do while driving on the street, but quite honestly you can't really practice that kind of stuff on the street. For a beginner who doesn't know, yes, practicing on the street is a good way to start. However, I'm assuming you're beyond that simple beginner stuff at this point, and have the muscle memory down. You just need to get that final touch down to perfect it. That solid brake pedal which is higher is key, IMO. That long progressive pedal travel on the 987s make it difficult to keep constant steady pressure on the brake pedal. Tell me I'm right after you get the car.

w00tPORSCHE

Nice thread. You guys have a CR and or spyder and want a GT3 and I have a GT3 and am lusting for a spyder. Wow this is a sickness that is extremely contagious even for someone like me who is not into tracking.

khooni

someone did say the perfect combo is to have both the spyder and the Gt3.........

orthojoe

Many have said that, and I would agree.

w00tPORSCHE

I don't know about perfect combos Khooni but I do know that we all have biologic clocks that keep ticking and when the alarm goes off guess what there is no stopping. I want to get in as much different ownership experiences as I can before I don't know what condition will affect my health. I enjoyed my air-cooled car as long as I had it and was sad to see it leave my home but I still reminisce that sound of the motor and light feel of the 3.2 coupe. I chuckle every time when I see people belittle the Cayenne. After 25K miles in less than two years IMO, it is the best high performance truck one can ever drive in their lifetime and it also does other stuff so well be it transporting family, hauling goods or travel in blizzard like conditions. As much as the fact that CR makes most sense for someone who resides in this beautiful PNW, I just want a pure no frills roadster and connect with the elements and what better car than a BS. My test drive recently just proved that there is no subtitute for light weight ... not even more power. Thats where a lightly spec'd BS holds charm in my eyes. BTW I have always enjoyed your posts Khooni. What a great set of folks we have here in this community.

w00tPORSCHE

and folks like Afshin, Joe, Zellamsee et al my man who keeps patiently answering to all my PMs on the spyder that too with great camaraderie and enthusiasm. Thank you my men.