Just traded my cayman S for a 997 C2S...
12-18-2006, 07:52 PM
#16
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by jrok
It's not as much difference as you might think, you cannot judge the relative pace of the two cars just based on HP numbers. A friend of mine is an instructor at PDE as he says neither car can get away from the other or overtake the other at Barber, regardless of which one is in the lead. I'm not trying to change anyones mind I'm just saying there's not that much difference at most tracks. Like I said, each has it's strengths and the track layout would have an impact.
And yes, the 997S has 60 more HP but it also weighs 3131 vs. 2954. 177 lbs. lighter and engine configuration do come into play when slipping around the track. Driver skill would be a big factor.
And yes, the 997S has 60 more HP but it also weighs 3131 vs. 2954. 177 lbs. lighter and engine configuration do come into play when slipping around the track. Driver skill would be a big factor.
12-18-2006, 09:36 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by 38D
In the hand of two equal drivers, the 997S will be significantly faster. There is a reason that the 997S is in C class and the Cayman S in D. I suspect that there was a skill difference in the two cars you instructor friend saw. I've schooled some poorly driven fast cars (Cam Am Lola, Ferrari GTP Spice, Indy Lights, etc...) at the track in my D class 964 turbo, but that doesn't mean my car is equal to them.
12-18-2006, 10:27 PM
#18
Originally Posted by mooty
i love my cayman S. but facts are facts. given equal driver cayman is equal to 997, but not a chance agaisnt 997S.
12-18-2006, 11:54 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by BrendanC
But as you have said, given equal power, say, a 3.8S motor in each, the Cayman is then on top.
but has this been conclusively proven?
take a 400HP Cayman-- whether the Farnbacher Cayman GTR or the upcoming Ruf supercharged Cayman; has any big HP Cayman been proven to be as fast around most tracks as say, a 997GT3? i'm sure its possible, its just that i've never been able to find any head-to-head tests showing this.
(and I'm comparing the Cayman with the GT3 because by the time you've shoe-horned an X51 3.8 into the Cayman, fit really good brakes and suspension, and made sure everything was running as smoothly and reliably as a factory car, you're already in GT3 money. if you go with an outfit like Ruf, you're paying even more obviously!)
finally, are there any Caymans out there with a GT3 or 996Turbo engine transplant? I know of at least one outfit that is supposedly working on one, but heard that the dry sump system makes it challenging...
cheers
12-19-2006, 12:18 AM
#20
Originally Posted by 38D
In the hand of two equal drivers, the 997S will be significantly faster. There is a reason that the 997S is in C class and the Cayman S in D. I suspect that there was a skill difference in the two cars you instructor friend saw. I've schooled some poorly driven fast cars (Cam Am Lola, Ferrari GTP Spice, Indy Lights, etc...) at the track in my D class 964 turbo, but that doesn't mean my car is equal to them.
12-19-2006, 12:49 AM
#21
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by jrok
My comments were not meant to be inflamatory in any way as I do not own either a Cayman S nor a 997S. My point was only that the cars are not very far apart in overall capability. The balance and overall handling of the 987S cars make it not a gross departure from the 997S in overall performance, which takes a more skillful hand to manage. They are quite close for a $25-30k premium and on a shorter, twisty track there would not be much between them. I truly repect the experience on which you guys base your opinions and I was merely trying to imply that the performance is not a huge disparity. The little cars a quite capable.
Originally Posted by hesperus
i've long wondered about this. Logically speaking, it makes all the sense in the world-- inherently superior platform (mid vs rear-engined,) and a lighter overall package. slap on some 350mm big brakes on the Cayman, and with the same power as a 997, the car should be faster.
but has this been conclusively proven?
but has this been conclusively proven?
01-30-2007, 09:41 PM
#23
Originally Posted by 38D
I had to say this, but I agree with Nobel. A 997S would be significantly faster at the track than a Cayman S. +60hp extra and a broader torque curve does not lie.
The point is that, in the hands of the "average" driver, the difference between the two is not as great as many novices would think. OF COURSE in the hands of a skilled driver, the 997S would turn a quicker lap time. The question is how much of a difference would there be in stock trim. Not as much as many people assume.
01-30-2007, 09:52 PM
#24
Originally Posted by 38D
I definitely think the Cayman S is potent. I've raced Ernie enough to know it can be very fast when well driven. And yes, at a shorter track like Lime Rock, the lap time delta would be smaller between a 997S and a Cayman S. But go to a bigger track like Watkins Glen, and th997S would walk away from the Cayman.
The major delta would be the weight (though the 3.8L engine probably weighs more...). If the 997S and a 3.8L Cayman had the same weight and brakes, the performance would be similar. On tighter tracks, the Cayman would have more of an advantage, and on longer sweeper type tracks the delta would be very small. Mid engined can be better (not is, but can be), but requires skill and a good setup to maximize the advantage.
The major delta would be the weight (though the 3.8L engine probably weighs more...). If the 997S and a 3.8L Cayman had the same weight and brakes, the performance would be similar. On tighter tracks, the Cayman would have more of an advantage, and on longer sweeper type tracks the delta would be very small. Mid engined can be better (not is, but can be), but requires skill and a good setup to maximize the advantage.
02-24-2007, 06:56 AM
#26
Racer
It comes down to an individual purpose.
A. If your only goal is to win the trophy at the track, then the cayman may be your best bet as no matter who drives one, at their skill level, will be able to go around the track faster.
B. Now if your looking for overall satisfaction that is an individual preference. I test drove a Cayman very hard, had the wheels squealing around turns and it felt great. Not having the extra horsepower for me though was very noticeable. Now taking my 996 around the turns I find is a much different feeling, yet a great feeling. That is the key to individual preference. What is the total satisfaction package.
The extra horsepower gives me more pleasure then being able to take a corner faster. For someone else, taking the corner faster is more important than horsepower.
It is not cut and dry. One is only better than the other for you depending on your purpose. At the end of the day you have to ask yourself what makes you the happiest and what is most important to you.
How the car feels when you drive it. If you concentrate on what others say about the car or how the car compares to others, affect you, then you will never be completely happy.
A. If your only goal is to win the trophy at the track, then the cayman may be your best bet as no matter who drives one, at their skill level, will be able to go around the track faster.
B. Now if your looking for overall satisfaction that is an individual preference. I test drove a Cayman very hard, had the wheels squealing around turns and it felt great. Not having the extra horsepower for me though was very noticeable. Now taking my 996 around the turns I find is a much different feeling, yet a great feeling. That is the key to individual preference. What is the total satisfaction package.
The extra horsepower gives me more pleasure then being able to take a corner faster. For someone else, taking the corner faster is more important than horsepower.
It is not cut and dry. One is only better than the other for you depending on your purpose. At the end of the day you have to ask yourself what makes you the happiest and what is most important to you.
How the car feels when you drive it. If you concentrate on what others say about the car or how the car compares to others, affect you, then you will never be completely happy.
02-28-2007, 01:19 AM
#28
I just don't get why the 911 is so great because it has the engine in the rear. The 911 is the only sports car with the engine in the rear, if it's so great why don't other car manufacturers do that? Why is it that all of the top sports cars all have mid or front engine designs? If rear engine is so great, why does Porsche feel the need to make mid engine cars such as the Boxster, Cayman, Carrera GT? 
02-28-2007, 09:07 AM
#29
I just don't get why the 911 is so great because it has the engine in the rear. The 911 is the only sports car with the engine in the rear, if it's so great why don't other car manufacturers do that
It's nothing more than tradition. Porsche owners have for decades rebelled at any attempt by Porsche to abandon the rear engine. So Porsche engineering did their best to compensate for this challenging engine layout and they have succeeded.
It's nothing more than tradition. Porsche owners have for decades rebelled at any attempt by Porsche to abandon the rear engine. So Porsche engineering did their best to compensate for this challenging engine layout and they have succeeded.
