First Track Day This Weekend!
06-30-2005, 07:04 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First Track Day This Weekend!
I am very excited! Can't wait to get the 987S out on the track and see how she does. After hearing from Palting I'm pretty sure its going to be a blast. No R-compounds yet, just the Michelin PS2s. Hopefully they won't be too terrible. Also just want to get a feel for the car with street rubber before going extreme.
06-30-2005, 11:58 AM
#2
Pro
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Dana Point, CA
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Delesh,
PLEASE post a very, very detailed review when you return. What car have you driven on track previously, if I might ask? (so we know what the comparison will be like)
PLEASE post a very, very detailed review when you return. What car have you driven on track previously, if I might ask? (so we know what the comparison will be like)
06-30-2005, 12:24 PM
#3
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
which track, delesh?
i'll be at button willow
i'll be at button willow
06-30-2005, 01:33 PM
#4
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mooty, I will see you at the track because I'm headed to buttonwillow also. Are you driving the GT3? I will look for you.
schvetkaaks, I havent driven too much on the track yet, at least not like others on this board, so I am not sure how accurate my review will be. Most of my track time has been in karting. I will definitely post my impressions though. Have driven the following: 996, M-coupe, STI, Formula Mitsubishi.
schvetkaaks, I havent driven too much on the track yet, at least not like others on this board, so I am not sure how accurate my review will be. Most of my track time has been in karting. I will definitely post my impressions though. Have driven the following: 996, M-coupe, STI, Formula Mitsubishi.
07-03-2005, 12:24 PM
#7
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
delesh, i left for bw before i saw your post. you must be the silver 987s there. i was in my m3. you must have seen two almost twin looking white m3 one has wing on back while the other doesn't (that's me) too bad i didn't get to chat with you. hope you had a good time in the 114F heat... i enjoyed it a lot.
Trending Topics
07-05-2005, 03:19 AM
#9
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, I am back from the holiday weekend and hope everyone else had a great holiday as well.
Mooty, I remember seeing your car on track. Sorry I didn’t get to talk to you. I am sure we’ll see each other at another event sometime soon.
Anyway, here is the promised review.
As this was my first outing in the 987 and the fact that I had never driven at the Buttonwillow track I ran in the slow group. The heat at the track that day was very intense. I heard reports of 114-117 F. Despite all of this I really had a great time and have to say the 987 really is a lot of fun on a track. I was able to get up to speed very quickly. As Palting has reported in his experience the 987 is very easy to drive fast. The car is very well balanced and the power delivery is very smooth. If you look at the torque curves you will realize what I am talking about, no major spikes just torque over a fat part of the rev range. I was able to get on the power very very early. Although not exactly slow I felt like the 987 chassis could definitely handle more power with no problems. The heat definitely made a difference in power though, much less punch than I was used to. I will have to see how it feels when it’s a little cooler. However, the 987 temperature gauge never moved. No sign of overheating and the brakes were phenomenal as well. I had to adjust because I was actually overbraking into many turns at first. But the 987 allows you to brake less as it is able to carry more speed through corners. Great position for heel/toe as well (its something clearly noticeable from my old 996). The gearbox has nice short throws and I never missed a shift or even thought about the box at all.
The areas where I felt the 987 really shines on track are the handling and braking. It is undoubtedly a momentum car. It’s not set up to rocket down the straights or out of slow hairpins. Where I was clearly at an advantage on the track were sections where I could use the balance and road holding of the car to carry a lot of momentum with minimal use of the brakes. Keeping this momentum was key for straight sections because the 987 is not a monster in the power department (why, Porsche, why?). For instance: I was stuck behind a modified e46 M3 who would not let me pass (don’t ask me why). The passing zones were set up on the straights. I was clearly faster through the entire twisty section having to slow way down behind the m3. Because he had to brake much earlier and could not carry as much speed through the corners when I was close to him I would have to brake earlier also. When the straight came he would punch it and pull out 1-2 car lengths on me. If I dropped further back and carried more speed through the corner I was able to pull him in slightly on the straights but never tried to pass (it’s only DE after all). Anyway, I found it interesting just how much faster I was through the turns with the M3 noticeably understeering through fast sweepers. You have to use the 987s ability in the corners to get on the gas very early for those long straights. The track has a long soft right hand curve with a little banking then a quick left and I was able to stay on full throttle all the way through getting up to the 90s mph area (luckily my Michelins held up!) Very fun turn and the 987 was just awesome here.
The handling is very predictable and quite forgiving. The Michelin PS2s (stock config, 34psi/ 37psi, F/R) I was running were actually much better than I had planned (esp. in the heat). Strangely they felt very greasy and slippery when I was on my out laps. Once the tires warmed up a little they seemed to stick very nicely and had very progressive breakaway. The track was very slippery because of the heat though. The 987 seems to be very easy on the tires as well. Other track days with the M-coupe I was wearing through tires pretty quickly (Michelin PS), usually on one side of the car and had bad chunking. With the 987 wear was minimal and fairly even on the tires. I believe this is most likely due to much better suspension design than the M-coupe, which is rather outdated (similar to E30 3 series I believe) although the new PS2 compound or whatever could just be better. I wonder what others have noticed. The 987 is noticeably more planted than the M-coupe. The M had a strange floaty feeling when pushing hard through bends and mid corner bumps made it very scary. The PASM was quite good. I could see a track heavy 987 set up better with aftermarket components but I loved the fact that I drove all the way down and back to Buttonwillow in comfort and was then able to pump up the suspension for track use with the push of a button. I could always get different springs and still use the PASM if I wanted to lower it some more. The PASM is not intrusive. You never feel that anything artificial is happening at the corners. Its quite firm in sport mode and keeps the car flat through all of the turns. It never felt floaty or overly harsh either. It really seems to maintain traction very well. I tried a couple laps with the PASM on normal setting and could definitely feel much more body lean and much more tire squeal but it was fairly competent, definitely not ideal though. Compared with the 996 I think the boxster offers more confidence because of the better weight balance. When I came into a corner a little too hot I never felt I was fighting the tail swinging out as much as on the 911. I have heard that the 996 is much better than the earlier models in this respect though. Overall the boxster has the same planted, “Porsche” feeling as the 996. The main difference between the two is the lightness and nimbleness in feeling of the boxster. Through the set of esses I could just flick it left and right. The variable steering is very transparent. However, I realized I was able to turn into tight turns much easier because I didn’t have to take my hands out of position as much. It really makes these turns much easier to negotiate and hit those apexes. Small note, I love the seating position. I don’t know what they have done to it vs. the 996 but it just feels more sporty to me.
Overall I had a blast. And isn’t that what its all about. I was actually the only car to go out the last session of the day. Everyone else wimped out
It was very hot but the 987 was so much fun I had to take her out one more time (plus a track all to yourself, awesome!).
I ran in the slow group so you cant compare cars, but if you are interested I was able to pass 996 GT2, 996 GT3, E46 M3 (modified), M5s, STI, Mini Cooper S Cabrio (instructor car, cool), 944, 993 Turbo, and others. I am not saying the 987 is faster or that I am a better driver, but it’s interesting to note the confidence the 987 inspires right from the start vs. the other cars.
Let me know if there is anything else you guys want to know.
Mooty, I remember seeing your car on track. Sorry I didn’t get to talk to you. I am sure we’ll see each other at another event sometime soon.
Anyway, here is the promised review.
As this was my first outing in the 987 and the fact that I had never driven at the Buttonwillow track I ran in the slow group. The heat at the track that day was very intense. I heard reports of 114-117 F. Despite all of this I really had a great time and have to say the 987 really is a lot of fun on a track. I was able to get up to speed very quickly. As Palting has reported in his experience the 987 is very easy to drive fast. The car is very well balanced and the power delivery is very smooth. If you look at the torque curves you will realize what I am talking about, no major spikes just torque over a fat part of the rev range. I was able to get on the power very very early. Although not exactly slow I felt like the 987 chassis could definitely handle more power with no problems. The heat definitely made a difference in power though, much less punch than I was used to. I will have to see how it feels when it’s a little cooler. However, the 987 temperature gauge never moved. No sign of overheating and the brakes were phenomenal as well. I had to adjust because I was actually overbraking into many turns at first. But the 987 allows you to brake less as it is able to carry more speed through corners. Great position for heel/toe as well (its something clearly noticeable from my old 996). The gearbox has nice short throws and I never missed a shift or even thought about the box at all.
The areas where I felt the 987 really shines on track are the handling and braking. It is undoubtedly a momentum car. It’s not set up to rocket down the straights or out of slow hairpins. Where I was clearly at an advantage on the track were sections where I could use the balance and road holding of the car to carry a lot of momentum with minimal use of the brakes. Keeping this momentum was key for straight sections because the 987 is not a monster in the power department (why, Porsche, why?). For instance: I was stuck behind a modified e46 M3 who would not let me pass (don’t ask me why). The passing zones were set up on the straights. I was clearly faster through the entire twisty section having to slow way down behind the m3. Because he had to brake much earlier and could not carry as much speed through the corners when I was close to him I would have to brake earlier also. When the straight came he would punch it and pull out 1-2 car lengths on me. If I dropped further back and carried more speed through the corner I was able to pull him in slightly on the straights but never tried to pass (it’s only DE after all). Anyway, I found it interesting just how much faster I was through the turns with the M3 noticeably understeering through fast sweepers. You have to use the 987s ability in the corners to get on the gas very early for those long straights. The track has a long soft right hand curve with a little banking then a quick left and I was able to stay on full throttle all the way through getting up to the 90s mph area (luckily my Michelins held up!) Very fun turn and the 987 was just awesome here.
The handling is very predictable and quite forgiving. The Michelin PS2s (stock config, 34psi/ 37psi, F/R) I was running were actually much better than I had planned (esp. in the heat). Strangely they felt very greasy and slippery when I was on my out laps. Once the tires warmed up a little they seemed to stick very nicely and had very progressive breakaway. The track was very slippery because of the heat though. The 987 seems to be very easy on the tires as well. Other track days with the M-coupe I was wearing through tires pretty quickly (Michelin PS), usually on one side of the car and had bad chunking. With the 987 wear was minimal and fairly even on the tires. I believe this is most likely due to much better suspension design than the M-coupe, which is rather outdated (similar to E30 3 series I believe) although the new PS2 compound or whatever could just be better. I wonder what others have noticed. The 987 is noticeably more planted than the M-coupe. The M had a strange floaty feeling when pushing hard through bends and mid corner bumps made it very scary. The PASM was quite good. I could see a track heavy 987 set up better with aftermarket components but I loved the fact that I drove all the way down and back to Buttonwillow in comfort and was then able to pump up the suspension for track use with the push of a button. I could always get different springs and still use the PASM if I wanted to lower it some more. The PASM is not intrusive. You never feel that anything artificial is happening at the corners. Its quite firm in sport mode and keeps the car flat through all of the turns. It never felt floaty or overly harsh either. It really seems to maintain traction very well. I tried a couple laps with the PASM on normal setting and could definitely feel much more body lean and much more tire squeal but it was fairly competent, definitely not ideal though. Compared with the 996 I think the boxster offers more confidence because of the better weight balance. When I came into a corner a little too hot I never felt I was fighting the tail swinging out as much as on the 911. I have heard that the 996 is much better than the earlier models in this respect though. Overall the boxster has the same planted, “Porsche” feeling as the 996. The main difference between the two is the lightness and nimbleness in feeling of the boxster. Through the set of esses I could just flick it left and right. The variable steering is very transparent. However, I realized I was able to turn into tight turns much easier because I didn’t have to take my hands out of position as much. It really makes these turns much easier to negotiate and hit those apexes. Small note, I love the seating position. I don’t know what they have done to it vs. the 996 but it just feels more sporty to me.
Overall I had a blast. And isn’t that what its all about. I was actually the only car to go out the last session of the day. Everyone else wimped out
It was very hot but the 987 was so much fun I had to take her out one more time (plus a track all to yourself, awesome!). I ran in the slow group so you cant compare cars, but if you are interested I was able to pass 996 GT2, 996 GT3, E46 M3 (modified), M5s, STI, Mini Cooper S Cabrio (instructor car, cool), 944, 993 Turbo, and others. I am not saying the 987 is faster or that I am a better driver, but it’s interesting to note the confidence the 987 inspires right from the start vs. the other cars.
Let me know if there is anything else you guys want to know.
07-05-2005, 09:30 AM
#10
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
delesh, the fast sweeper (riverside) is great, with enough camber your car should hang on the inside at 100-110mph! you can probably go full throttle throught the esses as well. i did that in my e36m3 which doesn't have the handling your box does.
i had a 986s and also a 2000 m coupe. you are correct that suspension on mz3c is very dated and to go fast you need some serious mods on suspension. it goes from initial understeer to snap over steer very abruptly.
i had a 986s and also a 2000 m coupe. you are correct that suspension on mz3c is very dated and to go fast you need some serious mods on suspension. it goes from initial understeer to snap over steer very abruptly.
07-05-2005, 11:52 AM
#11
Nordschleife Master
Excellent write-up! Great to hear you had a blast and enjoying the car the way a Porsche should be enjoyed.
Absolutely right on the 987 being a momentum car. I've found, however, that slow in fast out still works better even on the 987. To get around the higher torque cars like the M3, I brake early on the end of the straight to let them get ahead, then get on the gas early so I'm riding their bumper as we exit filling up their side mirror on the passing side. Timed right, the faster exit speed won't let them get far ahead unless it's a really long straight. They usually get the idea and give a passing signal after a few turns. If not, I just pit and go out in a different segment.
Glad to hear you had fun! Now for some mods
.
Absolutely right on the 987 being a momentum car. I've found, however, that slow in fast out still works better even on the 987. To get around the higher torque cars like the M3, I brake early on the end of the straight to let them get ahead, then get on the gas early so I'm riding their bumper as we exit filling up their side mirror on the passing side. Timed right, the faster exit speed won't let them get far ahead unless it's a really long straight. They usually get the idea and give a passing signal after a few turns. If not, I just pit and go out in a different segment.
Glad to hear you had fun! Now for some mods
.
07-05-2005, 12:09 PM
#13
Pro
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Dana Point, CA
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Palting, obviously you are an experienced track driver, so my suggestion to you would be to change your avatar to include a shot of you in the car without an instructor. 
Any why in the world don't you have your litronic headlights protected with tape on the track??
Any why in the world don't you have your litronic headlights protected with tape on the track??
07-05-2005, 06:02 PM
#14
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mooty, yes I felt the 987 could go much faster through the sweeper but I was a little scared to carry much speed through the left hand kink right before the sweeper as there is a nasty curb there which I was told would definitely bend a rim. So I got a little wimpy there and only noticed I was getting up to high 90s.
Palting, exactly. Thats what I was trying to explain. The 987 just allows you to get on the throttle so early. Its great. And yes, the slippery slope of mods is calling. Need to decide exactly what I want to do first. What are you planning?
kcrpca, I have seen spring sets offered for pasm cars 997 & 987. I have also heard of the H&R springs coming soon like you said. Not sure about what is actually possible. I am going to run my car more to see exactly how I want it altered and to just get better as a driver first.
Palting, exactly. Thats what I was trying to explain. The 987 just allows you to get on the throttle so early. Its great. And yes, the slippery slope of mods is calling. Need to decide exactly what I want to do first. What are you planning?
kcrpca, I have seen spring sets offered for pasm cars 997 & 987. I have also heard of the H&R springs coming soon like you said. Not sure about what is actually possible. I am going to run my car more to see exactly how I want it altered and to just get better as a driver first.