Cupcar

A friend of mine attended a focus group held in Orange County some years ago on the Boxster Coupe as well as other Porsche models.

The most commonly asked question to my friend was basically: "How much are you willing to pay for this styling change in the car?"

I am sure the Boxster S costs Porsche more to produce than a standard 911 Coupe yet the price for the 911 is far higher because they know the market will pay the price.

Paul Marangoni

The Cayenne

MikeN

This is a comparison I am still debating myself. The Cayman no doubt will be a great performer.......but how much of this will be useful in the day-to-day world? I don't know about anyone else but my typical drives don't involve anything that even resembles a trip around the 'ring......I only wish. So even though at the limit the Cayman will probably be the better car......will it be a much better alternative to a 911 in day to day driving? What if the price of a Cayman with a few options comes close or passes a base Carrera? Will the extra torque/HP of the 3.6L be more useful than even the 3.4L in the Cayman? While I don't really *need* 4 seats they might come in handy now and then. I think with the Cayman pricing will be everything. Price it too close to the 911 and a lot of people will go 911 or even look somewhere else. Price it sensible and you will sell both the Cayman and 911 in good quantities.

If the Cayman was truly a different car than a hard top Boxster, maybe some perceptions would change. Many still see it (including myself) as a Boxster Coupe with a little more power and a few styling changes and can't understand the huge price increase for it.

Cupcar

I think one issue is the convenience of a hatchback versus the extra seats. If you have a couple of kids that fit in the back and need to schlep them around once in a while the 911 is for you.

However if you want to load minor items, make a Costco run etc. The hatchback the Cayman will probably have will be more to your liking.

The price is not set for the Cayman is it? I would be surprised if it is more than the Boxster Convertible since convertibles are usually the expensive versions in the line up. Maybe that is why it is a Cayman and not a Boxster Coupe, different model different pricing...even though it costs less to build.

Having had a 914/6 for many years, I feel the driving dymanics of the Cayman will probably be more fun in the end than the extra power IMHO

jetrainor

Rear engined is the fastest Porsche ever built.....hmmmmmm....don't think so. I have in front of me the original Road and Track ad from Porsche, promoting the new 1987 928S4. By Porsche's own admission, this car was faster and more powerful than the 911 Turbo. It held this distinction right through to 1995, the final year of production of the only purpose built car Porsche had ever made to that point.
jetrainor
1987 928 S4 Euro
Silver/Black

MikeN

Porsche has pretty much let it be known that the Cayman S will slot between the Boxster S and base 911. Many rumors have it pegged in the low $60K range. A bit steep for a Boxster coupe with a little more engine....IMO.

designman

Porsche is also showing the Panamera concept at Frankfurt in the fall. It's anybody's guess what their plans are for that. There’s something going on here, a volcano of sorts erupting in Stuttgart—their product lineup is being shaken up—hopefully for the better. Don't forget 997 was said (or rumored) to be an intermediate platform. It would be funny if C&D is right about the price and Cayman comes in with the Carrera engine… the servers here would explode.

Also, the dance with Toyota and hybrid is to be watched. Electric motors have incredible performance characteristics and Porsche needs to stay in check with the new emission regs that will take effect in 08 or 09. Also, Ferdinand Porsche is said to have developed the first gas/electric hybrid—the 1900 Lohner-Porsche. It’s in the genes. Could Panamera wind up hybrid in addition to Cayenne?

I think the near future may see the 911 slated for the GTs, Turbo, C4S and Carrera cab. The Carrera will be replaced by Cayman and its offspring. Of course the 911 cannot just drop dead. It’s a matter of evolution and common sense marketing. And if Cayman is a thoroughbred performer, we are going to pay for it.

Remember visions of the humble $40K Boxster coupe? Somebody at Porsche obviously said... right, those skinflints can kiss my canteloupes. 40K happened in 97.

Alan

Robin,
Well as jetrainor points out not quite right on a few points...

"PAG has always delivered these 'other' cars with less pure HP than the 911's, and always, cheaper than the 911's, helping to reinforce the image"

The 928 through its whole life had more horesepower and pretty generally more top speed than the contemporary 911's - even the Turbos, though the Turbos accellerated a few 10ths faster. The 928 was always positioned at the top of the range as the flagship line. Maybe it represented the "luxo cruiser" mentality to some and it was equipped & priced well above the 911, but it was always still a great drivers car. The 928S4 was for a while the fastest volume production car in the world (bar none).

"Porsche's marketing has always positioned the 911 as the ultimate Porsche"

Well as above - not really - although it was really a different market segment Porsche was after with the 928 (i.e. Mercedes SL & Jaguar type buyers rather than traditional Porsche people).

In the end the 928 neither replaced the 911 or made enough money to preserve its own position -
but it still lasted as the flagship of the product line for 17 years and like the 911 only changed its form subtlely while its mechanicals were relentlessly improved.

There is nothing like the pure grunt of a 928 GTS at low RPM's, no lag - all go. take a ride in a 928 you'll enjoy it! Like the 944/968 the 928's were great drivers cars and easy on the eyes as are all the 911's IMHO. Different but all great!

Porsche is now moving back into these same areas again - hopefully (and apparently) on a stonger footing this time. I'm hoping for an all new 928 replacement with a classic look, 4 seats, turbo V8, Vroom! I can't wait to see it for real - could turn out to be expensive though...! More Panamera than Cayman for me but each to his own! (... and I still want a C4S too!)

Alan

gtdrei

I acknowledge that my statements were not absolutely correct. The 928, for a time WAS the flagship of the fleet, and Porsche's first attempt at targeting the upper end of the Gran Tourismo market. However, the 911 camp in PAG (there were 2 camps, and the infighting was bitter) eventually won that battle, eliminating the front engined cars from the product sheet. Today, as for most of the 40 year history of the 911, it's positioned as THE PORSCHE to aspire to, unless you can consider writing a check for $400K. As for me, if I could get my hands on a good S4, I'd restore it and add it to the collection, such as it is.

Robin

Flott Leben

C&D is usually pretty accurate but everything else I've heard puts it in the range between the Boxster S ($53,100) and the 911 Carrera S ($79,100) - probably low to mid-$60's.

Jastx

I have to say, I drove a 997 Carrera and 987S back to back, just spirited street driving. I came away thinking the 997 was nice but wasn't as iimpressed as I expected to be. However, the 987S blew me away with how responsive it was to drive -- it did everything well. I'm not a convertible person, so the idea of the Cayman coupe with a little more HP, a more rigid chassis with even sharper handling is a very appealing proposition. For me, it's not the numbers, it's the feel. The 987S just had this light, nimble, sharp feel with an excellent driving position and a sweet short-throw shifter. I was really surprised -- it was a wonderful drive.

Cupcar

Read the March 2005 Evo magazine, they compare the 997 to a Boxster S at the track.

Both inexperienced and experienced drivers were faster in the Boxster.

qirex

aha, but that compared a boxster S with PASM to a base carrera.
They seemed to agree that the PASM made the difference...

I too tested a 987S. It felt okay, great car, but s-l-o-w.

But then I'm spoiled by the turbo.

Darren

I think the one point that is missing here (unless I'm wrong - very possible) is that the Cayman is being promoted as being a track car.

I have a 2002 996 that I'm going to sell because its not a track car, its a street car (here I thought all Porsches were track cars! But no!). They have threatened to cancel my warranty more than once because of taking it to DE events. Porsche has made a distinction between the two. If I had to make a direct argument to my point, I would point out that the 996 has a wet sump whereas the 993 didn't. That was the Porsche Jump-the-shark moment.

So the Cayman may not seem like it makes sense $$$ wise as far as price when you consider it as a street-only car, it makes a ton of sense when you think of it as a street/track car. I'm guessing that the dealerships and PCNA will be more forgiving for track use.

leslie

I think you are 100% on the money.

I suspect that there will be no clubsport Cayman S cos the S will already be pretty much a lightweight track focused car. This would enable them to charge a sizable premium over the Boxster S and price it close to base 911 money. As such, they would cater to all of those who have been hankering for a no frills porsche to take to the track on the weekends. This is backed up by the fact that they 'leaked' the information that Walter Rohl is quicker round the 'Ring in the Cayman S vs the Carrera (S?).

At the same time, they will still offer the base 911 to those who are after the 911 experience with the 4 seats, use all year/all day appeal and who are less track inclined.

I think this strategy would allow them to produce the Cayman S and least cannibalise sales from the 911s. I'm not saying that there wont be cannibilazation but this strategy would allow for less than just making the car a Boxster Coupe with the same degree of sportiness as the 987 or 997.

It would be absolutely fab if they were to revert to a dry sump on the 3.4 in the cayman S but this is likely to cause a big jump in development costs and as such, I am not holding my breadth.