968 starting problems
02-15-2014, 10:58 PM
#1
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968 starting problems
I just recently replaced the timing belt and when I went to start the car it backfired. The car then would not turn over and found the starter failed. Replaced the starter and now seem to no longer get a spark. I have the Durametric 6 system showing no error codes. It did however show some errors on the alarm system but once they were cleared they have yet to reappear. Leading to the coil is showing 0 volts when key turned to on and when starter it shows only a few volts. Any ideas on what to do next?
02-16-2014, 06:43 AM
#2
That's quite a mix of symptoms. Assuming you mean "at starter" and not "when starter", my primary concern would be the alternator-to-starter cable if you aren't getting full voltage.
That cable runs from the back of the alternator down to the starter, and in addition to its primary insulation on the cable itself, it runs inside a large, loose "sheath" for most of the distance. Unfortunately, the primary insulation hardens and cracks off completely, leaving the entire length of the cable pretty much bare and exposed inside that sheath!
That might be OK except for the fact that the ignition wire also runs inside that sheath, and it degrades only slightly more slowly than the starter cable. This means they can short together and engage the starter at random times, including overnight or while you're driving. In brief, you can find your car on the other side of the garage, or parking lot, on any given morning!
One easy test to check the condition of your starter cable is to open the hood and stand next to the driver's side front wheel. Look down behind the alternator with a flashlight - if the large copper cable is bare and exposed there, then it's a good chance it also is inside the sheath. You should also get under the car and break open the sheath near the starter, where the cable takes more bends and turns and gets exposed to a lot of heat. Look inside the sheath for exposed cable, chunks of crispy insulation, and potential shorts that could be causing your partial voltage issue.
There are replacement cables available, and I've installed them myself with excellent results. You can search historical threads for "IceShark" or "Robby Cables", but I believe their current business name is "Higher Connections".
If this is your problem, it's a relatively cheap and easy fix, and one that will be necessary on every 968 sooner or later.
Of course, after all that if you really meant "when starting" and were measuring low voltage at the coil somehow, then I'd start easy procedures like swapping the DME relay for kicks.
That cable runs from the back of the alternator down to the starter, and in addition to its primary insulation on the cable itself, it runs inside a large, loose "sheath" for most of the distance. Unfortunately, the primary insulation hardens and cracks off completely, leaving the entire length of the cable pretty much bare and exposed inside that sheath!
That might be OK except for the fact that the ignition wire also runs inside that sheath, and it degrades only slightly more slowly than the starter cable. This means they can short together and engage the starter at random times, including overnight or while you're driving. In brief, you can find your car on the other side of the garage, or parking lot, on any given morning!
One easy test to check the condition of your starter cable is to open the hood and stand next to the driver's side front wheel. Look down behind the alternator with a flashlight - if the large copper cable is bare and exposed there, then it's a good chance it also is inside the sheath. You should also get under the car and break open the sheath near the starter, where the cable takes more bends and turns and gets exposed to a lot of heat. Look inside the sheath for exposed cable, chunks of crispy insulation, and potential shorts that could be causing your partial voltage issue.
There are replacement cables available, and I've installed them myself with excellent results. You can search historical threads for "IceShark" or "Robby Cables", but I believe their current business name is "Higher Connections".
If this is your problem, it's a relatively cheap and easy fix, and one that will be necessary on every 968 sooner or later.
Of course, after all that if you really meant "when starting" and were measuring low voltage at the coil somehow, then I'd start easy procedures like swapping the DME relay for kicks.
02-16-2014, 10:32 AM
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Sorry I didn't make it clear. What I meant was when I turn the key to start the car I am showing a few volts leading to the coil. The DME relay has been replaced. I was looking at some other trouble shooting posts and will try cleaning all of the grounds.
02-16-2014, 06:45 PM
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Not at all sure if this will help you - and it is beyond me too - but.....
My 968 had an aftermarket alarm system fitted back in the 90s. It worked perfectly for the one year I owned the car. I had the timing belt, water pump etc. replaced and then all of a sudden whenever the car was cold it would start up but stall immediately. I had just decided it must be a quirk of the car as the dealer couldn't find anything wrong.
To cut a long story short - I had the alarm replaced with a new one because the remote on the old had hacked up buttons that didn't work properly and nobody here could service the old alarm. Anyway, had the new alarm fitted and for reasons I cannot explain - from that day forward the car starts perfectly at all times.
I just wonder if the old one had some sort of old school fuel cut off immobiliser and the fuel wasn't flowing properly as a result. Really no idea if this will help you or not but yeah!
My 968 had an aftermarket alarm system fitted back in the 90s. It worked perfectly for the one year I owned the car. I had the timing belt, water pump etc. replaced and then all of a sudden whenever the car was cold it would start up but stall immediately. I had just decided it must be a quirk of the car as the dealer couldn't find anything wrong.
To cut a long story short - I had the alarm replaced with a new one because the remote on the old had hacked up buttons that didn't work properly and nobody here could service the old alarm. Anyway, had the new alarm fitted and for reasons I cannot explain - from that day forward the car starts perfectly at all times.
I just wonder if the old one had some sort of old school fuel cut off immobiliser and the fuel wasn't flowing properly as a result. Really no idea if this will help you or not but yeah!
02-16-2014, 07:41 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Alarm issues on these cars cause all sorts of strange starting/running problems. Double check the FSM on diagnosing a faulty alarm control box. Also, since you have the Durametric tool, make sure you don't have an airbag fault or bad control box there. Not sure if it was possible, but if you shorted either system you could have killed one of the boxes and that will guarantee a no start.
02-17-2014, 04:55 AM
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The thing that worries me most is your first sentence: Did you check the timing marks and turn the engine over by hand before attempting to start it? Because the "backfire" sounds to me like the cam timing is out, hopefully not to the extent of valves hitting pistons and stopping your motor from turning over when attempting to start it. Everything else seems a bit coincidental...
Rob
Rob
I just recently replaced the timing belt and when I went to start the car it backfired. The car then would not turn over and found the starter failed. Replaced the starter and now seem to no longer get a spark. I have the Durametric 6 system showing no error codes. It did however show some errors on the alarm system but once they were cleared they have yet to reappear. Leading to the coil is showing 0 volts when key turned to on and when starter it shows only a few volts. Any ideas on what to do next?
