Anybody know this car? Black on black '94 six speed coupe in New England
#16
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
200 k miles ? sounds like the seller is shady. then again, the engine if well cared for could be in very good condition... i would inspect the exhaust pipe. you can learn a lot. if it's a good engine, you can get to 400 k miles and never be too far behind the original hp numbers.
Or Ferris Buehler could have borrowed the car, driven it backwards and taken the 30K off.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Dealer is typical used car shop. Started the business 2 years ago, has one visible negative experience on the web (BMW motorcycle sale, bad transmission).
I will take a look at the exhaust...thanks for the tip!
This will be a daily driver for me for a couple of years and may turn into more of a dedicated autocross/track rat. I'm a PCA associate member and autocross regularly with NER PCA, spend a couple of days on the track each year with either the PCA or Audi club. Current toy is a tastefully modified '01 A4 1.8t quattro avant.
While I don't want to pour tons of money into it fixing things that I didn't know about prepurchase, I've been driving Audis for the past 15 years and understand upkeep...and preventive maintenance. I also have another car that sees winter time DD duties (an A6 wagon), so the 968 won't be my only transportation.
And DD responsibilities are fairly light -- I work from a home office and commute to other offices by Acela or air
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
My grail car is a 996 or 997 C4S. This will be my first Porsche and I don't feel that I'm ready for my grail car yet!
Lee
#17
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Caraquet-- New-Brunswick-- Canada
Posts: 2,728
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
![Talking](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif)
No maintenance records. This dealership typically picks up cars at auction. The original servicing dealer (1994-2001, 110K miles) is local and I can stop by to talk with the service dept.______Normal 99% of those dealers don't have records when they buy from auctions.
However, the last 9 years (and -30K miles) is an unknown. Yes, -30K. Speedo reads less today than what was reported by CARFAX for 2001.____Red flag on this one
Probably serviced by an independent in NH.
Dealership unwilling to let car go for the day for my mechanic to do a PPI. I may be able to find local independent to take a look...but with the unknown mileage, I will not buy this car without a good PPI!
Lee
However, the last 9 years (and -30K miles) is an unknown. Yes, -30K. Speedo reads less today than what was reported by CARFAX for 2001.____Red flag on this one
Probably serviced by an independent in NH.
Dealership unwilling to let car go for the day for my mechanic to do a PPI. I may be able to find local independent to take a look...but with the unknown mileage, I will not buy this car without a good PPI!
Lee
#18
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
yes. i agree 100 %; and Ernie's synopsis gets right to the point....
just a couple of thoughts to consider when purchasing a 968;
don't stay firm on the idea of purchasing local... the car closest to your home could end up costing you.. and this one is a completely, blind car. in this situation it might just be best to move on... one significant problem with the 968s is that they're now getting really old.. and like the 944s of just a couple of years ago, they now have a lot of history, good and bad.. but, one thing about our cars that the dealer doesn't know can be used to your advantage; it's that the 968 is like, a 4X better built car than the 944 ! serious. it's a dramatic upgrade. yet, quite different now than from just a few years ago — is that the 968s are nearly as old as the old crapola '44.... there's not going to be as much of a separation in the dealer's mind as there would have been before...
and even better, you hold all the cards in terms of buying the right one ! you don't even know this car's true mileage (something that would drive most of us nuts and, over time, will probably drive you nuts too)..... occasionally there are Rennlisters (and others) who have very well-cared for 968s with all records, and they're simply moving on to Cayman's and 911s.... or this is already their second Porsche and they're upgrading their number two cars to Boxsters or Caymans.....
the parts might not break the bank but they are numerous and pricey... the engine might be okay, and i'm not saying you can't buy this car and make it work.... but, you have to go on the assumption that everything is past due... you'll need to spend about $1,400 dollars worth of parts and fluids.... do a tune up and complete 110~120 mile engine service including replacing most of the timing system before you can properly drive the car. then there's the driveline and transmission compenents.... you don't really know the mileage on the clutch... a lot of unknowns here.... you don't know when the brake fluids, coolant and transmission oil was done, so you can add those.
when i purchased my 968, i told the seller that his upkeep on the car was good, but that a lot of time had elapsed during his retirement and as far as i was concerned all of the wires, hoses and belts needed fresh replacement... additionally, i told him the clutch was long overdue for replacement... i read the born-on dates of the tires, and discovered fluids on the suspension bushings.. and he caved.
in your situation, it's not likely you'll get a used car dealer to come down to earth, because he knows he can find someone else who will overpay..... but just the same, tell him you'll meet halfway on $4~5 k worth of refreshes that need to be done right now... which means getting him to come down about 20~25 hundred dollars. explain you won't drive this car until the risks associated with valvetrain failure are eliminated, and the car's igniton parts, fluids and filters are replaced.... if a miracle occurs and you're able to get him to come back to reality, the guys here will be happy to point to the items that need replacement.
on a bright note, the Porsche 968 is a very forgiving car... if it was me i might leave him an offer @ about $2,500 less than his asking price in a sealed envalope explaining the carfax discrep, and the long list of parts and fluids that would need to be replaced... and most of all, that the offer is your final.
good luck,
regards,
od.
.
just a couple of thoughts to consider when purchasing a 968;
don't stay firm on the idea of purchasing local... the car closest to your home could end up costing you.. and this one is a completely, blind car. in this situation it might just be best to move on... one significant problem with the 968s is that they're now getting really old.. and like the 944s of just a couple of years ago, they now have a lot of history, good and bad.. but, one thing about our cars that the dealer doesn't know can be used to your advantage; it's that the 968 is like, a 4X better built car than the 944 ! serious. it's a dramatic upgrade. yet, quite different now than from just a few years ago — is that the 968s are nearly as old as the old crapola '44.... there's not going to be as much of a separation in the dealer's mind as there would have been before...
and even better, you hold all the cards in terms of buying the right one ! you don't even know this car's true mileage (something that would drive most of us nuts and, over time, will probably drive you nuts too)..... occasionally there are Rennlisters (and others) who have very well-cared for 968s with all records, and they're simply moving on to Cayman's and 911s.... or this is already their second Porsche and they're upgrading their number two cars to Boxsters or Caymans.....
the parts might not break the bank but they are numerous and pricey... the engine might be okay, and i'm not saying you can't buy this car and make it work.... but, you have to go on the assumption that everything is past due... you'll need to spend about $1,400 dollars worth of parts and fluids.... do a tune up and complete 110~120 mile engine service including replacing most of the timing system before you can properly drive the car. then there's the driveline and transmission compenents.... you don't really know the mileage on the clutch... a lot of unknowns here.... you don't know when the brake fluids, coolant and transmission oil was done, so you can add those.
when i purchased my 968, i told the seller that his upkeep on the car was good, but that a lot of time had elapsed during his retirement and as far as i was concerned all of the wires, hoses and belts needed fresh replacement... additionally, i told him the clutch was long overdue for replacement... i read the born-on dates of the tires, and discovered fluids on the suspension bushings.. and he caved.
in your situation, it's not likely you'll get a used car dealer to come down to earth, because he knows he can find someone else who will overpay..... but just the same, tell him you'll meet halfway on $4~5 k worth of refreshes that need to be done right now... which means getting him to come down about 20~25 hundred dollars. explain you won't drive this car until the risks associated with valvetrain failure are eliminated, and the car's igniton parts, fluids and filters are replaced.... if a miracle occurs and you're able to get him to come back to reality, the guys here will be happy to point to the items that need replacement.
on a bright note, the Porsche 968 is a very forgiving car... if it was me i might leave him an offer @ about $2,500 less than his asking price in a sealed envalope explaining the carfax discrep, and the long list of parts and fluids that would need to be replaced... and most of all, that the offer is your final.
good luck,
regards,
od.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 02-27-2012 at 06:14 PM.
#19
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
think they fixed the fatal flaw of the H20-cooled 996, Boxster and Cayman engines with the Gen 1 997s ?
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...lure-mode.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...lure-mode.html
#20
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Caraquet-- New-Brunswick-- Canada
Posts: 2,728
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
![Talking](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif)
No maintenance records. This dealership typically picks up cars at auction. The original servicing dealer (1994-2001, 110K miles) is local and I can stop by to talk with the service dept._____Normal 99% of those dealer don't have records when the buy at auctions.
However, the last 9 years (and -30K miles) is an unknown. Yes, -30K. Speedo reads less today than what was reported by CARFAX for 2001.____Red flag on this one.
Probably serviced by an independent in NH.
Dealership unwilling to let car go for the day for my mechanic to do a PPI. I may be able to find local independent to take a look...but with the unknown mileage, I will not buy this car without a good PPI!
Lee
However, the last 9 years (and -30K miles) is an unknown. Yes, -30K. Speedo reads less today than what was reported by CARFAX for 2001.____Red flag on this one.
Probably serviced by an independent in NH.
Dealership unwilling to let car go for the day for my mechanic to do a PPI. I may be able to find local independent to take a look...but with the unknown mileage, I will not buy this car without a good PPI!
Lee
#21
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Also red flag here,there is no reasons for not letting you have the car for a PPI unless they have something to hide.Simple no PPI no money in their pockets,if I were you I'll look around RL or Pelican & try to buy one which has records & known history.You migth pay a little more upfront but it will pay in a long run.GL
I will continue to look...will also take this one for a spin later this week.
I fully understand the statement that the least expensive car is not usually the cheapest.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Lee
#22
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
first the good news... on a bright note, i'm of the school that you can roll the dice on the clutch and transmission for now, as they can go for a very long time (my clutch is the original and i'm almost at 160 k miles. but, do change the fluids....
120 k mile service (or sooner) talking about pulling the valve cover off and replacing the cam chain, pads and hall sender.... the cams sprockets could be damaged.... they need to be inspected... and you could have a couple of lifters sticking.....
then the timing/bs/serpine belts, rollers and tensioner, H20 pump, thermostat, hoses (incl. fuel hoses), front engine seals, some gaskets, brake, clutch fluids/coolant, full tune up w/ cap and rotor (old rotors fail), plugs/wires, air and fuel filters, check all ps hoses, pump (ps pump seals may require replacing), and rack for leaks, and check steering column for play....
good chance the ball joints in the control arms will have play,..... control arms and caster blocks are a grand (just the parts)... and you can almost guarentee the caster blocks and sway bar bushings need to be swapped.... on the 968, strut mounts are a grand and change.... struts... shocks.......
welcome to Porsche.
120 k mile service (or sooner) talking about pulling the valve cover off and replacing the cam chain, pads and hall sender.... the cams sprockets could be damaged.... they need to be inspected... and you could have a couple of lifters sticking.....
then the timing/bs/serpine belts, rollers and tensioner, H20 pump, thermostat, hoses (incl. fuel hoses), front engine seals, some gaskets, brake, clutch fluids/coolant, full tune up w/ cap and rotor (old rotors fail), plugs/wires, air and fuel filters, check all ps hoses, pump (ps pump seals may require replacing), and rack for leaks, and check steering column for play....
good chance the ball joints in the control arms will have play,..... control arms and caster blocks are a grand (just the parts)... and you can almost guarentee the caster blocks and sway bar bushings need to be swapped.... on the 968, strut mounts are a grand and change.... struts... shocks.......
welcome to Porsche.
#23
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
With higher miles I would only suggest it if you do your own wrenching. Let me tell ya, there is something I like about that car, I just can not pinpoint it right now though.
#25
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Lee, if you are ever in the neighborhood and want to take a look at some colorful examples of the 968 send me a PM. Also, if you are still shopping on April 21st head down to the PCA swap in Hershey. There are always nice 968s in the car coral for sale.
Jeff
Jeff
#26
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Just had PPI's done in Florida and California within the last 7 days and got these results. Keep in mind BOTH sellers said their cars were perfect and needed nothing. The Florida car needed $12k+ in repairs including the top end valve job and the Cali car needed $5k in repairs BEFORE putting it on a lift and looking at the engine! I stopped that PPI to minimize my cost...or loss. What happened to honesty or do these people really believe their 911 with non-working everything is perfect??? Just venting.
![banghead](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/banghead.gif)
![banghead](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/banghead.gif)
![banghead](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/banghead.gif)
what you can say about any P-car, you can say about any P-car...
overall, the cars are great.... the parts often leave much to be desired.
#27
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I agree about the color combo. My A6 wagon is black on black, with black Ultraleggera summer wheels.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Lee
#29
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Funny....I just ran across the *same* car listed in West Palm Beach. Most likely a scam...but perhaps the guy is legitimately trying to turn a quick buck. Sell it for 14K, buy it for $9K. Not bad. ![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/cto/2828155589.html
Lee
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/cto/2828155589.html
Lee
#30
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
barn find. ![Stick Out Tongue](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
waitaminute.... you were gonna pay $14 k for a car with a bad carfax ?
be thinking more like $7.5~8.5 k (tops) for that thing bro.
![Stick Out Tongue](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
waitaminute.... you were gonna pay $14 k for a car with a bad carfax ?
be thinking more like $7.5~8.5 k (tops) for that thing bro.
![rockon](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/rockon.gif)