Considering 1st 968 purchase
04-18-2009, 01:21 PM
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Considering 1st 968 purchase
Hello all.
So while looking up cars for the in-laws, I inevitably started looking at 968's. I'm on my 2nd 944, and have been driving those for almost a decade, now. I realize that's not a LOT of time compared to the life of these cars, but I'd like to think that I've become somewhat competent in what to look for, how they feel and sound, etc (if only I could better predict the timing of the dreaded water-pump-replacement!). I've found a 968 from a dealer's trade-in for about $13. The VIN is WP0CA2969SS840315. It's white, '95, 91k miles, and a cab. Now, before one of you more wealthy, multiple Porsche-owning-types (oh, how I envy you) go out and ****** it up, I was wondering if someone would mind giving a little advice to me on what to look for, especially considering that the price seems to be significantly lower than I thought these were going for.
Of course I'm hoping for service records, and will definitely try to ascertain the age of the water pump (it's my understanding that the 968's suffer the same 40k replacement cycle that the 944's do). It's been sitting outside, and has rained in the past few days, so I should be able to check for signs of leakage on the inside, will pay attention to sounds and feels as it drives, including how well it shifts, power steering issues, etc. Are there any other big-ticket, "common 968 issues" that I ought to look/ask for, that I wouldn't otherwise know because I've never owned one?
I've always wanted one of these, ever since my first 944 (funny how attaining one dream usually leads to the development of another), and while the color isn't my first choice, the model is. I'm just worried that I'm trading in the devils that I do know for the ones that I don't. I'm military, so I'll be driving this daily when I'm not deployed. I'll end up taking out a loan for this one, so I'm trying to head off any costly issues up front (or at least make sure they won't amount to more than my 944 would right now).
Thanks in advance, everyone!
So while looking up cars for the in-laws, I inevitably started looking at 968's. I'm on my 2nd 944, and have been driving those for almost a decade, now. I realize that's not a LOT of time compared to the life of these cars, but I'd like to think that I've become somewhat competent in what to look for, how they feel and sound, etc (if only I could better predict the timing of the dreaded water-pump-replacement!). I've found a 968 from a dealer's trade-in for about $13. The VIN is WP0CA2969SS840315. It's white, '95, 91k miles, and a cab. Now, before one of you more wealthy, multiple Porsche-owning-types (oh, how I envy you) go out and ****** it up, I was wondering if someone would mind giving a little advice to me on what to look for, especially considering that the price seems to be significantly lower than I thought these were going for.
Of course I'm hoping for service records, and will definitely try to ascertain the age of the water pump (it's my understanding that the 968's suffer the same 40k replacement cycle that the 944's do). It's been sitting outside, and has rained in the past few days, so I should be able to check for signs of leakage on the inside, will pay attention to sounds and feels as it drives, including how well it shifts, power steering issues, etc. Are there any other big-ticket, "common 968 issues" that I ought to look/ask for, that I wouldn't otherwise know because I've never owned one?
I've always wanted one of these, ever since my first 944 (funny how attaining one dream usually leads to the development of another), and while the color isn't my first choice, the model is. I'm just worried that I'm trading in the devils that I do know for the ones that I don't. I'm military, so I'll be driving this daily when I'm not deployed. I'll end up taking out a loan for this one, so I'm trying to head off any costly issues up front (or at least make sure they won't amount to more than my 944 would right now).
Thanks in advance, everyone!
04-18-2009, 10:31 PM
#2
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I don't think the 968 suffers the same water pump issue as the 944 but you definately have to check on the belt replacements. I also came up from a 944 turbo 13 years ago and the 968 is a lot more sorted out then the 944. Some have had a pinion bearing issue but not everyone. Like you guessed, look for a good history of TLC and you should have a nice car. I looked that cab up on the registry and it shows it has two options, power driver's seat and painted crest center cabs. It is a late car, #1957 of 2008 and #255 of the 95s ( of 306). I've seen the car on the net and it looks nice. Good luck.
04-19-2009, 12:30 PM
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Track Day
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Thanks for the replies, guys. Especially that heads-up about the cheaper EBay listing. Planning on taking a look at it today. Hopefully there's nothing severely wrong with it, and some kind of proof that I won't be putting it into the shop for the summer, ya know?
Must... temper... desire... with... reason... so... difficult!
Also, jeff968, how did you find/where did you see the production numbering/option codes for this car? I've spent the last 40mins or so trying to search for information based on the VIN online, to no avail. I find no matches on 968.net's registry or the Rennlist one here. I was always under the impression that they delivered 624 95 Cabs to the states...
Man, would totally give my left arm to get to talk with the previous owner. I can shift one-handed if needed...
Must... temper... desire... with... reason... so... difficult!
Also, jeff968, how did you find/where did you see the production numbering/option codes for this car? I've spent the last 40mins or so trying to search for information based on the VIN online, to no avail. I find no matches on 968.net's registry or the Rennlist one here. I was always under the impression that they delivered 624 95 Cabs to the states...
Man, would totally give my left arm to get to talk with the previous owner. I can shift one-handed if needed...
Last edited by Nvrmind; 04-19-2009 at 02:46 PM.
04-19-2009, 08:16 PM
#6
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Also, jeff968, how did you find/where did you see the production numbering/option codes for this car? I've spent the last 40mins or so trying to search for information based on the VIN online, to no avail. I find no matches on 968.net's registry or the Rennlist one here. I was always under the impression that they delivered 624 95 Cabs to the states...
Man, would totally give my left arm to get to talk with the previous owner. I can shift one-handed if needed...
Man, would totally give my left arm to get to talk with the previous owner. I can shift one-handed if needed...
As for your owner history, does the selling dealer have the maintenance book? If so, find out the dealer that sold the car new from it and then contact them for how many times they have seen the car. Maybe only once, when they sold it, or maybe every year. You can also contact Porsche customer service for the dealer number that sold the car new. Good luck.
04-20-2009, 01:23 AM
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FFS. I just typed up some 3 pages of notes on looking at the car, and somehow hit my touchpad while I was backspacing, so I went back a screen and lost EVERYTHING. That is really frustrating.
So the second time around will be shorter, I guess, hopefully I get everything out that concerns me. Please let me know if this should really be a new topic. I could use some feedback on all of this.
I can be very nitpicky/****, my work calls it attention-to-detail, so I have to remember to temper my criticisms with the fact that the car drove and handled great, and that my current 944S is by no means perfect. That being said, this is the first 968 I've played with at all, and would really appreciate some feedback on whether these things I've noticed are mountains or molehills. My thanks in advance for reading as much of this post as you do, and for all advice/comments. The dealership said to email my questions/concerns and they'd forward it to the owner, who will hopefully be willing to talk about the car a little. Dealer said it was traded in 23 days ago. I memorized the contact info for the 2 service orders' shops, and the owner, but figure this is less intrusive.
There are 2 fans that I could see in the front of the car. The one of the left (driver's side) of the car was cycling fast for 3-4 seconds, then slower for about 3 seconds, and repeating this when I first turned the car on. It was noticeable on the tach and definitely by the noise. Roars, then off, roars, then off. Turning off the A/C button seemed to alleviate this, but when I started the car a second time, I noticed the noise cycled briefly. I didn't look under the hood to see if it was the same fan, and I failed to notice if it occurred after I test drove the car some, or when I parked it. I'm used to the A/C running causing some noticeable fan noise and affecting the engine, but I don't recall such frequent cycling. The A/C did blow cold air and otherwise operate alright. Faulty relay or temp sensor? Big deal, or not? The engine otherwise sounded even and by all accounts, pretty smooth.
The warning (!) light was on and stayed on. Same for the airbag light. Not sure if they're related. Dealership says the owner had it looked at and that it was a problem with sensor and they apparently didn't/couldn't fix it. There's electrical tape over it, as can be seen in the pictures on the Ebay page. There were 2 service records with the car, and just the owner's manual in the glovebox. Records were for failure of the roof operation, isolated to a relay or some voltage issues somewhere, fixed. They also discovered (and I'm kicking myself for not taking a picture of the description so I can remember it better) leaking in the oil housing or something requiring gasket replacement. It was fixed alright – I think it was the oil and some other fluid mixing that sometimes happens in the 944's, iirc. Still, how can I know if there's something wrong with the car when the light is always on? Hopefully the owner can shed some light on this.
Second record was for failure of passenger side window operation, apparently due to rusting off the window track. Rusting off? Records indicate that the interior door panel was warped, and so the window was replaced as best as they could fit it. Why would that be warped? Does a leak in the lower window-sill cause these kinds of things, or was the car left out in the rain with the top down?
The cassette compartment door was broken, hot glued, and now held in place by a makeshift leather-strip hinge. That compartment is a little loose, maybe just the screws? The ashtray doesn't snap in flush (can be seen in Ebay pics that it's off a little). The part of the panel just forward of the ashtray can be lifted up about an inch from where they meet and is likewise loose. Is this all warping, and related to the door/possibility of some kind of water damage, or just loose screws and an old car? The only other interior issue I could see was the passenger side front a-post, the moulding or whatever that is up there looks like it was pulled back and then hot-glued back into place. Otherwise the inside doesn't show any other streaks or indications of leaks or damage. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good, and better than my 944S looks like.
Again possibly related to the above – the only sign of painting/potential body issues I could find was that on that same passenger a-post, there is a very small and light bit of white over-painting on the moulding closest to the window. I don't know if this is evidence of a repaint, or if the factory doesn't always do a perfect paint job. It's faded and was easy to miss, but there was definitely white on the black. The back-most piece of plastic on the headlight housings, arch-shaped, was cracked and hanging on one headlight and missing from the other. Common occurrence on reckless head-light changes, or insidious evidence of some collision damage? One of the headlight housings also had a crack running from the top screw straight back. Over-tightening, or something more? Headlights were otherwise alright.
The windshield wipers don't reset when stopped. You have to use the soft-use part of the lever to cycle them back to a resting position, or be -really- good at when you turn them off. Since my 944S wiper motor has failed and they don't move at all, this is an improvement, haha. Still, hopefully some money off if these are mostly molehills.
Will need new tires; back left is completely smooth across a 2-3 inch strip dead center. Thinking over-inflated for a LONG time. The back right has been replaced. The fronts have got some life, but not much. I didn't measure the brakes – they're not a deal breaker. There was one very faint squeal during medium braking while driving, and I couldn't reproduce it, otherwise they were smooth and very efficient.
It shifts gears quick and smooth. The clutch feels quite different from my 944's, so it's hard to relate. If it's the same hydraulic system as the 944's, then I can handle cylinder failures having replaced those twice on my own. Not fun, but at least I'm used to it. In the 944's the clutch was very quick to spring back, not quite stiff, but hard, if you will, and had what seemed like an arcing or curved motion through it's path. This one is much smoother, is a straight(er?) path from start to finish, and almost felt as though you were pushing on something attached to a metal cord? Does that make sense? You could -feel- it, ever so slightly, as you pushed it in. It was different, but it didn't make me feel that worried, and I didn't notice it while driving and moving through the gears. Maybe I'm being a little too paranoid? It shifted both ways, engine braked, and drove smoothly, and was noticeably quicker than my 944's were (both NA). Didn't hear any of the noises associated with pinion bearing failure.
There are some other issues, I think mostly cosmetic. Missing cover on the drive-side front bumper, so you can see a few bolts or screws or whatever those are. The rubber trim near the lower corner of the driver door has shrunk/come off the curve of the body by a little bit. The lower windowsill on the driver side, outside, looks a little wavy. The keys don't open the trunk, but the switch inside the car does (that usual with these?). The wheels look like they have some sort of wheel locks/weird lug nut on them, do I get/need those keys, or is it something that repair shops typically have?
That's mostly it. Hopefully will get in contact with the prior owner so I can get some clarification on that warning light, last timing belt replacement, etc. Would hate for him to write me back and go, man, I traded that in for an Infiniti 'cause I was tired of that POS, although, it would make things pretty easy on my decision-making-process.
So, sorry for the length, thanks for reading this far, and some opinions?
So the second time around will be shorter, I guess, hopefully I get everything out that concerns me. Please let me know if this should really be a new topic. I could use some feedback on all of this.
I can be very nitpicky/****, my work calls it attention-to-detail, so I have to remember to temper my criticisms with the fact that the car drove and handled great, and that my current 944S is by no means perfect. That being said, this is the first 968 I've played with at all, and would really appreciate some feedback on whether these things I've noticed are mountains or molehills. My thanks in advance for reading as much of this post as you do, and for all advice/comments. The dealership said to email my questions/concerns and they'd forward it to the owner, who will hopefully be willing to talk about the car a little. Dealer said it was traded in 23 days ago. I memorized the contact info for the 2 service orders' shops, and the owner, but figure this is less intrusive.
There are 2 fans that I could see in the front of the car. The one of the left (driver's side) of the car was cycling fast for 3-4 seconds, then slower for about 3 seconds, and repeating this when I first turned the car on. It was noticeable on the tach and definitely by the noise. Roars, then off, roars, then off. Turning off the A/C button seemed to alleviate this, but when I started the car a second time, I noticed the noise cycled briefly. I didn't look under the hood to see if it was the same fan, and I failed to notice if it occurred after I test drove the car some, or when I parked it. I'm used to the A/C running causing some noticeable fan noise and affecting the engine, but I don't recall such frequent cycling. The A/C did blow cold air and otherwise operate alright. Faulty relay or temp sensor? Big deal, or not? The engine otherwise sounded even and by all accounts, pretty smooth.
The warning (!) light was on and stayed on. Same for the airbag light. Not sure if they're related. Dealership says the owner had it looked at and that it was a problem with sensor and they apparently didn't/couldn't fix it. There's electrical tape over it, as can be seen in the pictures on the Ebay page. There were 2 service records with the car, and just the owner's manual in the glovebox. Records were for failure of the roof operation, isolated to a relay or some voltage issues somewhere, fixed. They also discovered (and I'm kicking myself for not taking a picture of the description so I can remember it better) leaking in the oil housing or something requiring gasket replacement. It was fixed alright – I think it was the oil and some other fluid mixing that sometimes happens in the 944's, iirc. Still, how can I know if there's something wrong with the car when the light is always on? Hopefully the owner can shed some light on this.
Second record was for failure of passenger side window operation, apparently due to rusting off the window track. Rusting off? Records indicate that the interior door panel was warped, and so the window was replaced as best as they could fit it. Why would that be warped? Does a leak in the lower window-sill cause these kinds of things, or was the car left out in the rain with the top down?
The cassette compartment door was broken, hot glued, and now held in place by a makeshift leather-strip hinge. That compartment is a little loose, maybe just the screws? The ashtray doesn't snap in flush (can be seen in Ebay pics that it's off a little). The part of the panel just forward of the ashtray can be lifted up about an inch from where they meet and is likewise loose. Is this all warping, and related to the door/possibility of some kind of water damage, or just loose screws and an old car? The only other interior issue I could see was the passenger side front a-post, the moulding or whatever that is up there looks like it was pulled back and then hot-glued back into place. Otherwise the inside doesn't show any other streaks or indications of leaks or damage. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good, and better than my 944S looks like.
Again possibly related to the above – the only sign of painting/potential body issues I could find was that on that same passenger a-post, there is a very small and light bit of white over-painting on the moulding closest to the window. I don't know if this is evidence of a repaint, or if the factory doesn't always do a perfect paint job. It's faded and was easy to miss, but there was definitely white on the black. The back-most piece of plastic on the headlight housings, arch-shaped, was cracked and hanging on one headlight and missing from the other. Common occurrence on reckless head-light changes, or insidious evidence of some collision damage? One of the headlight housings also had a crack running from the top screw straight back. Over-tightening, or something more? Headlights were otherwise alright.
The windshield wipers don't reset when stopped. You have to use the soft-use part of the lever to cycle them back to a resting position, or be -really- good at when you turn them off. Since my 944S wiper motor has failed and they don't move at all, this is an improvement, haha. Still, hopefully some money off if these are mostly molehills.
Will need new tires; back left is completely smooth across a 2-3 inch strip dead center. Thinking over-inflated for a LONG time. The back right has been replaced. The fronts have got some life, but not much. I didn't measure the brakes – they're not a deal breaker. There was one very faint squeal during medium braking while driving, and I couldn't reproduce it, otherwise they were smooth and very efficient.
It shifts gears quick and smooth. The clutch feels quite different from my 944's, so it's hard to relate. If it's the same hydraulic system as the 944's, then I can handle cylinder failures having replaced those twice on my own. Not fun, but at least I'm used to it. In the 944's the clutch was very quick to spring back, not quite stiff, but hard, if you will, and had what seemed like an arcing or curved motion through it's path. This one is much smoother, is a straight(er?) path from start to finish, and almost felt as though you were pushing on something attached to a metal cord? Does that make sense? You could -feel- it, ever so slightly, as you pushed it in. It was different, but it didn't make me feel that worried, and I didn't notice it while driving and moving through the gears. Maybe I'm being a little too paranoid? It shifted both ways, engine braked, and drove smoothly, and was noticeably quicker than my 944's were (both NA). Didn't hear any of the noises associated with pinion bearing failure.
There are some other issues, I think mostly cosmetic. Missing cover on the drive-side front bumper, so you can see a few bolts or screws or whatever those are. The rubber trim near the lower corner of the driver door has shrunk/come off the curve of the body by a little bit. The lower windowsill on the driver side, outside, looks a little wavy. The keys don't open the trunk, but the switch inside the car does (that usual with these?). The wheels look like they have some sort of wheel locks/weird lug nut on them, do I get/need those keys, or is it something that repair shops typically have?
That's mostly it. Hopefully will get in contact with the prior owner so I can get some clarification on that warning light, last timing belt replacement, etc. Would hate for him to write me back and go, man, I traded that in for an Infiniti 'cause I was tired of that POS, although, it would make things pretty easy on my decision-making-process.
So, sorry for the length, thanks for reading this far, and some opinions?
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04-20-2009, 05:49 AM
#8
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Borat Impersonator
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Borat Impersonator
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i have been looking at 968's for the better part of the last 6 months and i would say that with all those cosmetic issues there is no way that car is worth 11.5k.
all the signs of water damage are troubling and whats even more troubling is the shadetree cosmetic fixes done with hot glue especially since a cassette hinge is $30 for a new one and ELECTRICAL TAPE OVER THE WARNING LIGHT?? thats just retarded.
I would pass on this one.
Are you looking for a cab only? Where are you located?
all the signs of water damage are troubling and whats even more troubling is the shadetree cosmetic fixes done with hot glue especially since a cassette hinge is $30 for a new one and ELECTRICAL TAPE OVER THE WARNING LIGHT?? thats just retarded.
I would pass on this one.
Are you looking for a cab only? Where are you located?
04-20-2009, 09:54 AM
#10
Drifting
Tossup between the 968 coupe and 951, IMO. Today I like the 951 slightly more
04-20-2009, 11:25 AM
#11
Track Day
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Airflite40, I'm in the Wash DC Metro area. I just moved from Silver Spring, MD, to Annapolis, MD, temporarily. Starting to look like I'll be here for the summer. I'm military waiting on orders with a >3" medical record, so it's hard to get concrete timelines, heh.
I'm definitely just looking for a '95 Cab. I saw a black/grey one listed a few months back from a dealership up around PA, but they weren't too forthcoming with info and had no records on it, so I wasn't going to make that drive.
I'm definitely just looking for a '95 Cab. I saw a black/grey one listed a few months back from a dealership up around PA, but they weren't too forthcoming with info and had no records on it, so I wasn't going to make that drive.
04-20-2009, 04:29 PM
#12
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I'm on my 4th watercooler (NA, S2 Cab, 968 coupe, now a cab). I want another 968 coupe, black on black to mod. Either that or an S2 coupe same same.
Both great cars, the big difference is asthetics, the 968 looks more contemporary (would look even more so with a 993 fixed HID conversion that I'm planning...)
Both great cars, the big difference is asthetics, the 968 looks more contemporary (would look even more so with a 993 fixed HID conversion that I'm planning...)
04-20-2009, 05:18 PM
#13
Airflite40, I'm in the Wash DC Metro area. I just moved from Silver Spring, MD, to Annapolis, MD, temporarily. Starting to look like I'll be here for the summer. I'm military waiting on orders with a >3" medical record, so it's hard to get concrete timelines, heh.
I'm definitely just looking for a '95 Cab. I saw a black/grey one listed a few months back from a dealership up around PA, but they weren't too forthcoming with info and had no records on it, so I wasn't going to make that drive.
I'm definitely just looking for a '95 Cab. I saw a black/grey one listed a few months back from a dealership up around PA, but they weren't too forthcoming with info and had no records on it, so I wasn't going to make that drive.
04-22-2009, 08:40 PM
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Hey Guys,
I am also looking for a 968 cab. What's an approximate amount I can expect to pay for a car that is road worthy? For example, I would purchase the car and be able to drive it about 200 miles a week, without servicing it? Or should I just asssume I will put $2k of service into any car I purchase? Looking for a 6-speed with under 100k miles. Live in northern NJ.
Thanks.
I am also looking for a 968 cab. What's an approximate amount I can expect to pay for a car that is road worthy? For example, I would purchase the car and be able to drive it about 200 miles a week, without servicing it? Or should I just asssume I will put $2k of service into any car I purchase? Looking for a 6-speed with under 100k miles. Live in northern NJ.
Thanks.