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I have the full 993 front suspension in my WB track car and the steering is immediate. With no rubber in the system turn in is very precise and you need to get used to it vs the rubber bushings which do take a split second to react. The 993's all received a tie rod with mono ball but have an internal rubber coupler that mates the monoball to the tie rod. Only the RS and GT2's received a direct monoball like the one shown above. Porsche was trying to sell to the masses vs the enthusiast and softening up some of the components and dumbing down the exhaust note was probably a mistake. I had just pulled the tie rods off my C2 and installed ones from an RS/C4. It is my understanding the C4 and RS received a stiffer rubber compound than the C2 and turbos. I can say that the rubber bushing on my C2 with 62k miles were sloppy in comparison to the units I pulled from my C4 with 80k miles. I have no way of testing them at this time and my C2 is at the body shop having the sunroof removed. I will know more in a few months when it is back and the new MCS suspension is all dialed in. I had already done the bushings and brace which made a considerable improvement over stock. I prefer a precise feel but not necessarily quicker. You can play with suspension settings to make the car respond differently and there is also the consideration of swapping out the rack with a 993 version which is a quicker rack than the 964's. I as did others swapped out to turbo tie rods on my SC's. It was an improvement as I recall but that was a long time ago.
I have the 993 stock uprights i just removed from my track car along with the tie rods as I am switching over to full GT2 EVO and ERP bump steer tie rods on the car so I can lower it a bit below RS for track driving. I might throw those on my C2 as well which will make it hard to tell what makes the difference changing everything at once. Unfortunately the turbo is staying stock I can't see making mods to it since it has become more of, I hate to say, show car than anything else.
Rennline sells just the inner portion for a savings over the FVD units but not much assuming the outer ball joint is still good.
I have the full 993 front suspension in my WB track car and the steering is immediate. With no rubber in the system turn in is very precise and you need to get used to it vs the rubber bushings which do take a split second to react. The 993's all received a tie rod with mono ball but have an internal rubber coupler that mates the monoball to the tie rod. Only the RS and GT2's received a direct monoball like the one shown above. Porsche was trying to sell to the masses vs the enthusiast and softening up some of the components and dumbing down the exhaust note was probably a mistake. I had just pulled the tie rods off my C2 and installed ones from an RS/C4. It is my understanding the C4 and RS received a stiffer rubber compound than the C2 and turbos. I can say that the rubber bushing on my C2 with 62k miles were sloppy in comparison to the units I pulled from my C4 with 80k miles. I have no way of testing them at this time and my C2 is at the body shop having the sunroof removed. I will know more in a few months when it is back and the new MCS suspension is all dialed in. I had already done the bushings and brace which made a considerable improvement over stock. I prefer a precise feel but not necessarily quicker. You can play with suspension settings to make the car respond differently and there is also the consideration of swapping out the rack with a 993 version which is a quicker rack than the 964's. I as did others swapped out to turbo tie rods on my SC's. It was an improvement as I recall but that was a long time ago.
I have the 993 stock uprights i just removed from my track car along with the tie rods as I am switching over to full GT2 EVO and ERP bump steer tie rods on the car so I can lower it a bit below RS for track driving. I might throw those on my C2 as well which will make it hard to tell what makes the difference changing everything at once. Unfortunately the turbo is staying stock I can't see making mods to it since it has become more of, I hate to say, show car than anything else.
Rennline sells just the inner portion for a savings over the FVD units but not much assuming the outer ball joint is still good.
Thanks for your feedback Tony,
I would love to install the 993 rack, But there's nothing wrong with mine, maybe if I ever need to have steering rack rebuilt, I would have the gears changed to the 993 , The problem is when I drive the 74 911S then jump into the 965, it just feels different, Chancing the Dragan. lol
I feel that the monoball rods will do the trick.
My 12-year son and I just removed the tie rods, Before that, I measured the degree of the tie rod with the suspension fully compressed with 3/4 tank of fuel. It was -3 degrees down towards the wheel. which I feel is ideal for no bump steer, ride height set at RS spec 125+5mm, Removal went fairly easy, no need to remove the strut. One of the outer rods felt tight the other felt a little closer, the rubber U joint felt super stiff on the inner rods.
The new FVD rods have square nut - ball that screws into the rack that look like the factory stops , see pic, which is the same share as the steering stop . not sure if I need to re-install those or not. any thoughts
The new complete rods should be her April 24th from Germany.
Hello everyone. I hope that everyone is doing well.
I installed to RSR style tierods, Very easy install, and setting the front end alignment was easier because of the one nut lock. I also got my wheel back nice and straight. I was told that all the wheels were slightly off round. It's amazing how the car feels now. I also went from 285/30 to 295/30 rear tires
Not surprising the engine mount on the left side was shot, I did a bunch of research and bought 993-375-049-09. 993 C4, 996TT. 996 GT3/GT2 engine mounts from my local Porsche dealers online store I was amazed that the prices was so low .https://www.germanautopartssource.com/ Porsche of Tysons. The install was straight forward. and the result was awesome. the combination of all the little things I've done the last couple of months has transformed the feel of the car.
My 12-year-old son and I just installed Function First Performance. transmission inserts black 80A, I was able to lower the engine and trans to remove the bolt fairly easy, once I got the dang thing to lose, it was on there tight. Along with the engine mounts, This 965 feels great, I didn't notice more NVH, just feels tight and planted. I have to relearn the car again. drives totally different. I love it. http://www.function-first.com/products/964-993
Helio
Another update, I'm so happy with the last upgrades I did to my 965, it feels more nimble and easier to toss into turns. the steering feels amazing and the chassis feels planted, What I didn't like was the way the braking felt when hard on the brakes on tight turns, it would seem to pitch forward are least more than I would like, On my old yellow 911 turbo I had an adjustable brake bias valve and I like the way that car felt under braking with more rear bias, I did some research on the 965 brakes proportioning valve vs stock 964RS 5/55 valve and the 964 Cup has no valve. from what I 've read the gutting the P/V is the best route. according to Bill,V
It was time to bleed the 965 brake system. I started putting a lot of towels to catch any brake fluid that doesn't stop flowing by the way, so you have to quick when gutting it, removing the P/V was straight forward and easy. Pictures from another reenlist forum.
Next was bleeding the brakes calipers were simple, next was the clutch, Super nasty and dirty fluid it took a while to get clear fluid through the clutch system. Next was the accumulator a couple of times. that's always interesting. 2 liters of Super Dot 4 Done, I took the opportunity to clean the wheels again, Crazy how much brake dust accumulates in such a short time, I also clean the wheel wells, I do this usually 4 or 5 times a year anyway.
I did my test drive on my favorite twisty roads and long straights , I like to call, Midnite Run,,,, The braking was So much better, Planted! The feeling is night and day difference. I also did a high-speed brake test to see if the rear brakes would lock up, None... You can feel the chassis honker down on brakes versus the nose dive it had before. I would describe it, My 965 feels more like an RS than Turbo GT car. more fun to drive now. Planted, Nimble and Tossable = FUN
Things that I did for a better handling 965 streetcar,
3.6 RH's F 225-40 / R 295-30
Rotors and pads
Bilstein HD's front and rear
Eibach Progressive springs
Shock tower brace
964 RSR tierods
Stiffer steering rack bushings
Shifter rod bushing
Steering rack brace
RS spec ride height
corner balance
RS spec alignment
996TT- GT2 engine mounts
Function first, Trans inserts, black
Brake proportioning valve gutting.
Here's a post and some links that you asked for. Let me know what your thoughts are sir
Originally Posted by roadsleeper
Hi Bill,
1. ABD - Am I correct in understanding this as a rudimentary traction control system that uses the wheel sensors and ABS brain to brake individual calipers when slippage is detected?
yes, abd was an option on 993(M220 lsd/abd) you will be leaving your stock 964 ABS pump which won't have that. The abs/abd pumps have 2 outlets to the rear(4 channel abs) all the other only have 1 outlet to the back(3 channel abs)
If yes, then did the 964/5 Turbos have the most advanced 911 braking system available without ABD?
yes
Now for my uber-green question: Is it, or is it not desirable to have a more advanced ABS brain (i.e., from a 993) installed to provide better braking control/feedback, even if it has something as undesirable as ABD? Or is the control/feedback really down to the individual parts listed above (i.e., M/C, 12mm lines, etc.)?
No, you could go to the extremely expensive 993RS brain I suppose but then you need to redo everything, electronics as well as hydraulics and mechanicals. It can be done but the cost-benefit just isn't there
2. Proportioning valves - Is front/rear bias provided by the 55 bar P/V sufficient for the above set-up, or should I upgrade to the 60 bar? I am running under the assumption that 60 bar is the same pressure maintained in the 993’s brakesystem.
W/ the proposed rotors and calipers I would take off the p/v as they did on the 964 Cup cars. Some have mounted an adjustable one and some have the 55 or 60
Would an adjustable brake bias control be worthwhile to install?
1. Fresh air servo needs replacing. DONE 2. New Heater hose from the right side of the engine shroud needs to be installed correctly, AC compressor needs to be removed. PITA. DONE $0 3. Replace torn CV boots. DONE 4. Rocker panels clips. DONE 5. Intercooler to Turbo Hose needs to be replaced, for aesthetic
reasons..Waiting on parts Done 1/13/18 6. Clean the EZ 69 and re-grease and add ground cable to the backing plate. $16 waiting on parts .Done 1/13/18 7. Replace the rear lid shocks with heavy-duty units, Done 1/13/18 8. Replaced the WUR with a Brian Leask WUR set to OE specs, Just because the old unit was 25 years old Done 7/23 9. RH 3.6 18 wheels and tires 225/40 and 285/30 Done 05/18 10 .Detailed and ceramic coating on paint and wheels 04/18 11. Find EZ69/01 and ignition modules and tested Done 12/18 $ Over
2018/19 List
1. OEM Front and rear rotors, including Textar pads and sensors and one of the brake lines under the chassis Done 1/19 2. Bilstien B6 Front struts Done 1/19 3. Porsche Oil filter Done 1/19 4. Porsche fuel filter Done 1/19 5. New Bosch injectors Done 1/19 6. K&N air filter Done 1/19 7. Adjusted hand brake Done 1/19
8. Porsche factory door speakers 6/19
9. Porsche 964 speaker grills 6/19
Also cleaning under the chassis, I want something to keep me busy during the winter.
UPDATE 2020 LIST
1. Shifter linkage bushings x2 2/20
2. Steering rack kevlar enforced bushing 4/20
3. Rothsports steering rack brace 4/20
4. FVD 964 RSR tie rods outer and inners 4/20
5. New boots
6. Alignment at home 4/20
7. Fix bent wheels and straighten the rest 5/20
8. replace rear tires from 285/30 to 295/30 HTR Z III 5/20 5/20
9. replace engine mounts with 996 GT2/GT3 mounts Porsche Parts 5/20
10. Trans mount inserts Black 80A from Function First 5/20
11. Repaint the trunk lid because of stone chips 6/20
12. Replace A/C belt with Porsche part 6/20
13. Gut the Brake P/V FREE 7/20
14. Bleed complete brake and clutch system Including ABS system and Accumulator 2 liters of Super DOT 4. 7/20
15. Fix small oil leak from the triangle of death, mostly the oil breathing hose. 4/20
16. applied a fresh coat of 9H Ceramic coat and a Sio2 topcoat to body and wheels 7/20
17. Oil change using Porsche oil filter and Driven DT50 Air-cooled Oil. 6/20
18 Trans oil changed using Mobile SL70/90 oil 6/20
Since you are going to lengths to improve handling etc....If you have a small pile of cash burning a hole in your pocket and are still looking to improve handling I can strongly endorse the Guard Transmission LSD. I got the Club, not Pro. The way it just digs in and hooks up on sweepers and bends is awesome. More durable than the clutch discs in the OE, too. I’m not a differential expert but have a couple thousand miles on this diff and LOVE it.
I just noticed my clutch pedal was sticking a bit and I had just bled the complete system. I pulled the board to the pedals and saw there was a little moister around the boot and a tear, One more thing to replace, I ordered a replacement clutch master cylinder from my local Porsche dealer, They had it for me in one day at a great price too. It took about 2 hours to replace and bleed including clean the inside of the wheels, I believe most dealers charge 4 hours for this job. Lots of upkeep, It's expected with a car that is nearly 30 years old. I hope all are having a good summer.
04-17-2020, 08:35 AM
