3.6 turbo engine removal pictures
07-22-2011, 03:13 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Heads off-passenger side
Got the heads off and fun time with no decent manual. The word of the day is "Woodruff" key......forgot about that one and as it was dark, I couldnt figure out why the camshaft seal and housing wouldn't come off. Rookie move
Also, having to take the rocker arms off to get at the cam housing studs underneath was interesting. Everything's easy ones you figure it out! Drivers side will be MUCH easier, I hope
Heads, valves, and pistons look good after a cursory review. Will have the Porsche Gold meister mechanic come by to do an inspection on the pistons and cylinders, rings, heads, fuel injectors etc. once I get everything off.
All for now and thanks again for all the help and encouragement!
Also, having to take the rocker arms off to get at the cam housing studs underneath was interesting. Everything's easy ones you figure it out! Drivers side will be MUCH easier, I hope
Heads, valves, and pistons look good after a cursory review. Will have the Porsche Gold meister mechanic come by to do an inspection on the pistons and cylinders, rings, heads, fuel injectors etc. once I get everything off.
All for now and thanks again for all the help and encouragement!
Last edited by kfitzpat9; 10-28-2011 at 02:40 PM.
07-22-2011, 04:08 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
You are doing a top end, correct? You might consider replacing your rod bolts (another weakness) with ARP bolts without splitting your case. You can access the rod bolts once the cylinder are removed.
You should replace the head studs with ARP or Supertech so if you want to run a little more boost, your heads won't lift.
Porsche recommends replacing the pressure plate when changing the clutch as the dual mass Luk plates cannot be re-surfaced.
If you are replacing rings (you should definitely check for cracked rings) the cylinders will need to be reconditioned.
I'd shop parts prices as Pelican, while they have outstanding service, aren't the lowest price in town. PM me with your email address and I will send you a spread sheet with prices and vendors that I made last winter.
You will need machining services. I'd recommend Supertech in California. Henry has an impeccable reputation for quality work. Send him the pistons and cylinders as well as the heads so that he can see if they are still in spec.
I'd also recommend some light porting of your heads to improve flow. Specifically, the step between where the factory cut the valve seat relief and the port can be blended for a surprising flow gain.
You should replace the head studs with ARP or Supertech so if you want to run a little more boost, your heads won't lift.
Porsche recommends replacing the pressure plate when changing the clutch as the dual mass Luk plates cannot be re-surfaced.
If you are replacing rings (you should definitely check for cracked rings) the cylinders will need to be reconditioned.
I'd shop parts prices as Pelican, while they have outstanding service, aren't the lowest price in town. PM me with your email address and I will send you a spread sheet with prices and vendors that I made last winter.
You will need machining services. I'd recommend Supertech in California. Henry has an impeccable reputation for quality work. Send him the pistons and cylinders as well as the heads so that he can see if they are still in spec.
I'd also recommend some light porting of your heads to improve flow. Specifically, the step between where the factory cut the valve seat relief and the port can be blended for a surprising flow gain.
07-22-2011, 06:15 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Kevin, pick up Wayne Dempsey's "911 Engine Rebuilding" book either from Pelicanparts or Amazon (Amazon is cheaper) and the Bentley "964 Without Guesswork" book (same sources).
I have a pdf of the factory manual and it's nothing to get excited about.
You want to have a machine shop measure the cylinder bores for taper and the pistons for ring land wear. There are other measurements to do but I can't think of them offhand. They are all in Dempsey's book. Do not use the "964 Enthusiasts Companion" under any circumstances other than an emergency if you run out of toilet paper. That book has so many errors in it that it's dangerous.
Gauges are required. Dempsey's book will help if you have things like bore gauges, otherwise have an expert do it for you. Visual inspection is only part of the job.
Remember, this is a job you don't want to have to do twice because the 2nd attempt will be double the cost.
I have a pdf of the factory manual and it's nothing to get excited about.
You want to have a machine shop measure the cylinder bores for taper and the pistons for ring land wear. There are other measurements to do but I can't think of them offhand. They are all in Dempsey's book. Do not use the "964 Enthusiasts Companion" under any circumstances other than an emergency if you run out of toilet paper. That book has so many errors in it that it's dangerous.
Gauges are required. Dempsey's book will help if you have things like bore gauges, otherwise have an expert do it for you. Visual inspection is only part of the job.
Remember, this is a job you don't want to have to do twice because the 2nd attempt will be double the cost.
07-22-2011, 08:57 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Agree with you on the measuring tools (cylinders, pistons, rings) and this is bringing back memories from when I split the case on my 911SC, but that was more than 10 years ago so mostly all is forgotten! I took the p/c to a machinist who had all the tools and proper knowldege. For that car, he honed the cylinders and file fit the rings. And yes, as these are Nikasil coated, I wont be doing that!
Not sure about the head studs and rod bolts as I don't plan on increasing the boost, but I do like the fact that regardless, the engine will be more robust. And with all the money I am saving by doing the work myself........
Great spreadsheet by the way, very helpful!
Not sure about the head studs and rod bolts as I don't plan on increasing the boost, but I do like the fact that regardless, the engine will be more robust. And with all the money I am saving by doing the work myself........
Great spreadsheet by the way, very helpful!
07-23-2011, 10:21 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
I believe that EBS can recondition your Nikasil cylinders.
I'm guessing that the 3.6 uses Dilivar head studs. If so you really want to get rid of those.
Seeing as how you had your SC back when I had mine, you might remember when there was a rash of internet BS making the rounds of Pelicanparts where people were suggesting that head bolts should be re-torqued during valve adjustments. Suddenly there was an outbreak (no pun intended) of broken head studs - all Dilivar. Doesn't seem like Dilivar studs can be re-torqued.
I'm guessing that the 3.6 uses Dilivar head studs. If so you really want to get rid of those.
Seeing as how you had your SC back when I had mine, you might remember when there was a rash of internet BS making the rounds of Pelicanparts where people were suggesting that head bolts should be re-torqued during valve adjustments. Suddenly there was an outbreak (no pun intended) of broken head studs - all Dilivar. Doesn't seem like Dilivar studs can be re-torqued.
07-24-2011, 02:34 AM
#38
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Head studs
The reason I dropped my 80 911sc is because of the infamous head studs falling off in the valve train. I believe the studs in 3.6 motor are not dilivar as I checked and they are metallic. I'm seem to recall the dilivar studs being non-metallic, but am going from memory and need to verify.
Like you said, I don't want to do this again and am willing to spend the money where it makes sense to do so. I hope to get the remaining heads and all the pistons and cylinders out tomorrow.
Like you said, I don't want to do this again and am willing to spend the money where it makes sense to do so. I hope to get the remaining heads and all the pistons and cylinders out tomorrow.
07-27-2011, 01:17 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
To "Mod", or not to "Mod", that is the question
Hey,
The pistons and cylinders are out and I'm starting to feel a VERY strong desire to mess with and enhance the engine, now that it is out. Keep in mind, I appreciate "stock" vehicles a great deal as I've personally done a 914 v-8 conversion (don't hate me) as well as a supercharged Dinan M3, both of which had a lot of challenges in working out the kinks to make them run properly. Not to say that enhancements can't be made, but my experience tells me that Porsche knows a lot more about balancing the performance of a car (engine, suspension, brakes) and when you start messing around with one aspect (horsepower), then you need to make sure the rest of the car follows.
Anyway, I'm considering porting the heads (37MM), changing the cams (SC, EVO, other), changing head studs, rod bolts, blah, blah, $$$$$$.
Please let me know your opinions on whether or not I should pursure, or if I'm smoking crack.
Lastly, if you DO think I should pursue, please don't forward this to my wife as she actually likes me.........for now.
The pistons and cylinders are out and I'm starting to feel a VERY strong desire to mess with and enhance the engine, now that it is out. Keep in mind, I appreciate "stock" vehicles a great deal as I've personally done a 914 v-8 conversion (don't hate me) as well as a supercharged Dinan M3, both of which had a lot of challenges in working out the kinks to make them run properly. Not to say that enhancements can't be made, but my experience tells me that Porsche knows a lot more about balancing the performance of a car (engine, suspension, brakes) and when you start messing around with one aspect (horsepower), then you need to make sure the rest of the car follows.
Anyway, I'm considering porting the heads (37MM), changing the cams (SC, EVO, other), changing head studs, rod bolts, blah, blah, $$$$$$.
Please let me know your opinions on whether or not I should pursure, or if I'm smoking crack.
Lastly, if you DO think I should pursue, please don't forward this to my wife as she actually likes me.........for now.
Last edited by kfitzpat9; 11-11-2011 at 10:14 PM.
07-27-2011, 10:30 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Thought I read somewhere that Dilivar studs are slightly magnetic.....
As for mods, are you staying with K-Jet? If you are, trying to fuel a 3.6 with more mass flow will be problematic and will not optimize performance. If you convert to EFI the sky is the limit when compared to K-Jet. If not, I'd improve hardware where it makes sense (head studs, rod bolts), port match the intake, do a clean-up porting on the heads and add headers and a more modern turbo if you don't already have that stuff.
I think that you will find that a fresh 3.6 with mild massaging will be plenty fun to drive.
As for mods, are you staying with K-Jet? If you are, trying to fuel a 3.6 with more mass flow will be problematic and will not optimize performance. If you convert to EFI the sky is the limit when compared to K-Jet. If not, I'd improve hardware where it makes sense (head studs, rod bolts), port match the intake, do a clean-up porting on the heads and add headers and a more modern turbo if you don't already have that stuff.
I think that you will find that a fresh 3.6 with mild massaging will be plenty fun to drive.
07-29-2011, 03:56 AM
#41
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Heads and cleaning
I did a quick cleaning of the tranny and it is shown below. I'm taking the heads in tomorrow to get them cleaned up (guides, grind, etc) With 60K miles, I suspect the exhaust valves will be OK, but am considering putting in some new stainless valves.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
Last edited by kfitzpat9; 06-06-2012 at 11:26 PM.
07-29-2011, 04:12 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Heads and cleaning
I did a quick cleaning of the tranny and it is shown below. I'm taking the heads in tomorrow to get them cleaned up (guides, grind, etc) With 60K miles, I suspect the exhaust valves will be OK, but am considering putting in some new stainless valves.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
07-29-2011, 03:21 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Nice thread. In an earlier post you mention your mechanic. Do you mind me asking who he is as I am in your area and always looking for a good mechanic. Thanks
07-29-2011, 08:03 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Rusnak Westlake
His name is Mark Leach (Gold meister mechanic) and he is at Rusnak in Westlake Village. (805) 496-6500
For some stuff (brake bleed, diagnosis) Rusnak is pretty reasonable and Mark is exceptional mechanic and a very nice guy. Feel free to take advantage of Fitz's automotive (my garage
) whenever you like as I'd like to see your car!
For some stuff (brake bleed, diagnosis) Rusnak is pretty reasonable and Mark is exceptional mechanic and a very nice guy. Feel free to take advantage of Fitz's automotive (my garage
) whenever you like as I'd like to see your car!
08-05-2011, 10:43 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Piston orientation E vs A.1
Anyone know the piston orientation for each of the banks (1-2-3, 4-5-6) in relation to the "E" marked on the piston at 12 o'clock being up or down? I marked them as I disassembled it, but would be curious to see what you guys say.
The pistons are slightly off-set so this is important.
Thanks.
The pistons are slightly off-set so this is important.
Thanks.