schmidtwerk

Rays asking price is by no means a sale comparable to determine market value, while anyone can agree prices are higher than last year to date, only sold vehicles will determine market value. Rays vehicles are well marketed and are likely to set the highest comparable sales prices in the market WHEN they sell. The market for these machines is capturing an interesting buyer who is a collector with the money to buy and these cars are finding their way into collector hands with multiple Porsche cars not likely to get sold. As that is happening fewer and fewer "excellent" low mileage cars will be on the market and as demand increases so will price. I think you will see the low mileage cars sell for the highest prices since new in the coming year and I think excellent examples like Rays will likely set the high comparable sale price. Iam in the market and see little wrong with the 90+ asking price as long as the car is mint, Iam willing to step up for nice stuff and let the market catch up. Iam not as concerned with the price as getting a good car, we all know a car with problems car be far more expensive than the money saved by buying a substandard car. I have a friend with a sizable collection that is interested in buying the right 965 3.6 car, I know that a perfect "new" 5,000 mile car with a 9 at the front of the price is realistic for him. The turbo 3.6 has all of the elements that will make it a blue chip car in the future as time will tell.

Bad Boys 1

Schmidtwerk............I totally agree with you. A few years ago I passed on a black Flachbau
that sold in California for $115,000. I'm still beating myself up over that one.

Also when I bought my 3.6 some people said I paid too much at $53,000. I've since been
offered more than twice that.

SA Mike

I think when it comes down to it, it's all about what you want in a car. Take my car for example, it sat at Ray's for at least 6 months to a year before I bought it. Most probably were a little aprehensive because of the color. So I buy it and have an offer at least once a week. I had some people telling me that I was crazy for buying a car this color, but bought it anyway, it's what I wanted. Price is aways determined by what seller is willing sell it for and what the buyer is willing to pay for it. These cars are slowly getting rarer everyday because people are starting to buy them and hold. My advice, if you see one you like get it. I keep telling people that one that Ray has right now, the black with the special order interior is one of a kind. That interior cost more than a paint to sample option. Anyways just my opinion

schmidtwerk

I have a deposit on the Black/Red car, a plane ticket for Monday, and a cashiers check made out to RPM. The car should check out and go on the truck. I will pay Ray what he wants for the car, he has it, I want it, and that is just supply and demand. Iam also looking closely at the 5,500 mile black/tan car for a friend.

cobalt

Actually I have been watching the market for years and recently have seen higher mileage cars with 40-60k miles selling in the high $50's and mid $60's. These were not asking prices but selling. A few years back these cars might have commanded high $40's to low 50's max. I actually know of one car that sold for $10k more than the asking price. These cars have become very popular and with possibly <350 remaining examples and close to half being used and abused with the other half in excellent condition there are only so many to chose from. Many cars have sold for reasonable money in the past 5 years and most who own them like myself are not willing to part with them. I have been offered $20k more than I paid for my car with mid 30k miles and is not 100% stock although I have all the stock parts to convert it back. As we see higher prices for the higher mileage cars I see no reason why the pricing on the lower mileage cars shouldn't go up accordingly, especially since many are looking for pristine, unique, low mileage examples.

ZSA Motorsport

What you see here in this particular market for 964 turbos is what you would see in any market place where you have a limited supply and a large number of buyers. If there were more supply, more transactions could occur and then it would be easier to guage/make the market.

On wallstreet, you see this all the time in low volume, thinly held stocks. surges in demand can have significant impact on pricing. there isn't an ability to thumb your nose at Ray's inventory and simply go elsewhere as you might if you were unhappy with Best Buy's price on a TV. You'd motor over to Circuit City.

Ray is the only guy with low mileage, top quality 964turbos for sale. He has the right to offer them at whatever price he desires, and the right to sit on them if they dont sell. For every person looking at 964s and saying "oh 97,500 is crazy too high for a 964 turbo", there are guys who make a significant amount of money and/or dream for a pristine gorgeous 964 turbo, and will have no problem dropping an extra 5, 10k to buy the best, from the best.

I'll say this about Ray, i've bought several cars from him, sold several to him...each time the transactions went without any issues or problems. he was always a gentleman. One time we had a little hiccup on something, totally accidental due to our rushing a bit..he made good in total without any hestitation. when i'm sending someone big money by wire, its always nice to know the party on the other side is well established and honorable. you dont always get that with some sellers i've dealt with. i bot a 964 Flatnose S recently and it was a disaster transaction, a ton of nonesense. i was warned about the dealer going into it, and that warning proved accurate. but what choice did i have? not a lot of Flat noses out there<G>. if you want a 964 turbo, and you find the right color combo... buy it. there are not a lot out there, at all.

SA Mike

That's so true, my purchase went flawlessly.

ZSA Motorsport

When you're wiring around 50 , 100, or more $k for a vehicle, where the hard assets might be in another state, and title might not arrive for a day or two...you run some risks. As noted, i tend to put a premium on the contra party. i feel anyone buying a car from me has knowledge that i ceo a big stock brokerage firm with over 30 years in business, and would never foresake credibility for an amount of money. i do business with ray @ RPM, truspeed and others for the same reason. they might ask a few bucks more, but things go more smoothly....

here's an example of how things can go...unsmoothly.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=73949

Peace of mind might not mean much to some...to me, its well worth a few bucks more. the lineage of a car is important.

DougM92

I hear what you are saying but that peace of mind seems to be worth more than a few bucks, seems to be closer to $15K to $20K. That black/red car sat on consignment at the Imperial Palace for 6 months or so with a $72K asking and they were willing to take $65K. It was on Autotrader etc. I think there was a thread or two here about oil leaks, paint issues, etc. The 5,700 mile black car on Ebay gathered a bunch of attention on this board also but in the end nobody was willing to go over the $75K in late May.

Anyways my post was not about what the market price should be but that there seems to have been a big change in thinking about these cars in the last few months, to the tune of +15%.

schmidtwerk

I sure would like to see the post about the black car and its "paint issues". I plan on making my own assessments on the paint, I dont care about the leaks.

Frank 993 C4S

Wow, I almost bought a 993TT from these guys a couple of years ago!

The purchase of my 964 turbo was a horror show at best and it took me 9 months to sort out. Lessons learnt:

- make sure you are aware who actually holds the title to the car
- have the PPI done by a reputable shop that knows these cars well

ZSA Motorsport

"...also but in the end nobody was willing to go over the $75K in late May"
Ray did. I came close. he nipped me out by a few couple of hundred bucks in teh last few minutes of that auction. i went to Greek food dinner the high bidder at 5:52. auction i think ended at 6. i raised it a few bucks because i had to leave before it ended. my kids were going bonkers. 6,4 and 1. sitting in a kitchen while they run laps at full pace is not someting i can tolerate for 8 minutes more than i had already suffered. he spent his money and owned the car.

i find a lto of times that the buyer of the car might be in the market at the time and got cute for a few bucks , coming up short (me that day), didnt really fully commit and hadnt realized that the market was so darn tight on these things, the market gets tighter, or the buyer-t0-be hasnt turned up just yet.

i had a 993tt black/cash, 5800? miles that i loved, drove a good bit. flawless, just so nice. ibot a few others and decided to keep burdeons to a minimum. listed it here, listed it there, wouldnt sell at 86, 82, 80 whatever it was. maybe 3 times on ebay unsuccessful. i toss it on ebay once more, an hour later MD from Oregon calls me "oh, dream car, what i wnated....end auction do deal" next days wires money for full 85. super nice guy. super passionate about it. who would have thunk it!? just takes time. ray will get his price. i've seen him doing countlessly. mega-bucks from california who just sold some Stock Options from his startup will want the best...ray has it. done.

cheap deals dont come that often. that 964 was on ebay for 75. i should have sucked it up and tolerated the kitchen mayhem a tad more. I would almost put it this way. Ray is good. he probably has a better finger ont he market than any. that he is willing to pay up and buy up the 964s might suggest something. we all had a shot at that 964 for <75. noone else did. he did. Ray moves left, you can be pretty certain that left is the place you want to go.

Capitalism at its finest.

oscar94

I saw the car in person when it was in Vegas. At that time there was no way I would have paid 72 for it. Seemed very rough. Now I am not saying that RPM have not worked their magic on it and have it looking pristine, but when I saw it, it was rough. Plus the interior seemed a bit batmobile for my tastes.

SA Mike

Man, I remember this place, there were a couple of cars I was interested in.

DougM92

I have been there more times than I care to admit and that few bucks ends up costing me several thousand bucks in the end.