The making of a Porsche rest-volution - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Notices

The making of a Porsche rest-volution

Old 12-03-2016, 08:16 PM
  #1  
Nylasurf
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 267
Default The making of a Porsche rest-volution

This post is a long time coming...

My whole life i have been a car nut...my earliest memories were sitting in the back of my folks 1979, 4 spd. manual dodge aspen wagon yelling out car makes and models by its headlight patterns. It wasn't until a few years later that my Porsche affliction began.

My dad got relocated to the UK for work and decided to spoil himself with a used 1981 Porsche SC. At 8 years old this was the coolest car I had ever been in, that is until his friend came over in a new 1985 black Porsche targa...forever cemented in my mind as the most beautiful car.

5 years ago I decided I was in a position to pursue my passion and buy a Porsche. Faced with the decision that everyone here has faced, I tried to rationalize what was the right amount to spend and which model that would allow me to buy.

My compulsive nature led me to go through all of the old auto rags and compare statistics, reviews and road tests...should I go all out and get a 997.2 as the 991 is too much to swallow, or should I go with a Boxster or Cayman as they are set up to handle more naturally.

My mind returned to the purity of my childhood and the classic lines of the 911. I always loved the evolution of the 911 lines with the 993 but the classic lines speak to me more. I decided I would track down the best 964 I could find as it had the classic shape I love with the more modern amenities.
the cla
I tried to be pragmatic with my decision - which car that I could afford would hold its value the best. The Turbo was out of reach, especially if I wanted a 94 (who doesn't love the movie Bad Boys) the turbo look was pricey. The rare America Roadster and Speedster were nice, but i didn't want a convertible.

I longed for a Targa...the car that stole my heart as a child. The classic lines, roll hoop, distinct rear window...that is what I wanted. I decided on a C4 manual targa, because of low production numbers, first time AWD offered on a volume production car (959 excluded) and the classic air cooled motor.

After a few ups and downs...I found my car...

Nylasurf is offline  
Old 12-03-2016, 08:28 PM
  #2  
Nylasurf
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 267
Default

So that brings me up to three years ago...I found my car, a low mileage (sub 55K) Amazon Green/Linen C4 Targa. I had been on Rennlist a year prior to finding my car and spent hours and hours digesting the vast knowledge of the many of the great people on this forum....Countless threads provided guidance and numerous individuals answered my less than intelligent questions. Through the progress of this tread I will thank properly all those that helped me through the process.

I purchased my car sight unseen as I was stationed overseas but had a PPI conducted prior to purchase. Some items came up, but nothing that jumped out as a big issue. I had the car sent to Southern California and decided to have a second PPI done by a shop I have complete trust in...Callas Rennsport. Tony is an amazing individual and one of the most detail oriented people I have ever met. After a seat out inspection, he raised some concerns that water may have sat in the car and some wiring may not be in the best shape.

This left me with a sinking feeling as I thought that I had an amazing find only to find out that the first PPI wasn't as detail oriented and missed more than a few items. Further investigation identified that the previous owner had left the targa top off the car during a storm or three and never bothered to check under the carpet for sitting water. I was at a crossroad...sell the car in a market that had started the crazy rise and try to find another car or bring this one back to its full glory.

I decided on restoring her to her former glory. The car has been in the process of a full restoration to make sure every system is in top condition. I didn't want to risk any electrical gremlins or other mechanical issues from sitting for some time. Initially, I was going to do a straight restoration As many on this forum has discovered, no decision is a simple one...if I had to replace part A why not upgrade it with part B. This slippery slope has lead to Project Rest-volution.

Last edited by Nylasurf; 12-04-2016 at 02:17 AM.
Nylasurf is offline  
Old 12-04-2016, 02:39 AM
  #3  
Nylasurf
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 267
Default

PROJECT REST-VOLUTION

I started this project with the hopes of having her completed before the 50th anniversary of the Targa and Her design brief is as follows:

1. Design a 964 C4 Targa that embodies 60 years of Porsche design and innovation by utilizing inspiration from across the Porsche range that is a GT street car that can be tracked.

2. All of the improvements to the car must be easily reversible. I wanted to include a C4 Lightweight oil door as a C4 tribute and to recall the 72 model year, however not easily reversible.

3. Try and keep the car to a reasonable budget that doesn't exceed the potential value of the car. (I don't know if I am even close to keeping to this one but as she will always be with me I will accept that I hit two of the three )

Here were my thoughts for the build

Engine plan
3.6-3.9 displacement
OEM durability -
increased HP and TQ (don't want to put numbers down as they aren't important for me

Body & Mechanical plan
993 suspension and braking components
RS frame welding
Transmission and diffs rebuilt
Keep factory color
Functioning RS brake ducts
Custom touches to Body to recall past and future models
Upgraded lighting (HID or LED)

Interior
356/early 911 inspired guages
993 Hardback sport seats
keep original interior color but tribute 50's - 80's Porsches
inclusion billet door handles, door locks, lock pins, and adjustible pedal set

Now I know that a thread is useless without pictures so the next few posts should keep the wolves at bay.
Nylasurf is offline  
Old 12-04-2016, 03:05 AM
  #4  
Nylasurf
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 267
Default

After multiple conversations with Brian at California Porsche Restorations (CPR) Classic, I arranged for my car to make its way to his shop for their expertise in air-cooled restorations. The team there are amazingly skilled and if you find yourself driving between LA and San Diego, it is worth stopping by their shop in Fallbrook to get our fill of historic air-cooled ****. So the team got to work and wasted no time making the lady bare





With the car being disassembled I started to collect various baubles for the project. Again without Rennlist many of these items wouldn't be here either from lack of knowledge about knowing of their existence or they wouldn't exist because they are the passionate artwork of fellow rennlisters. I hope one day to contribute in such a way. (at the end of this build thread I will link each item that everyone contributed to make this build possible)



Pictured above are Rennline Billet components, a BlipShift T-shirt, custom oak key blanks (dfinnegan), steady state accelerometers (John @JDSPorsche) , custom gearshift lever (Chris @ lathewerks), speed adjustable spoiler module (Mojorizing), carbonfiber spoiler (Andrew @ LWS design), stainless steel gauge rings (Walrod), and of course factory Porsche keychain.

Many more parts have been requisitioned, but I have to get them photographed.
Nylasurf is offline  
Old 12-04-2016, 12:57 PM
  #5  
M-911
User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 9
Default

Interesting stuff and an enjoyable read!
I have a C2 manual coupe and am at mid point with my mods. I get you completely about being reversible, everything I have done or removed can be put back to original. Well maybe except for cutting the front spoiler to accommodate the functional brake ducts (FVD in Germany). I look forward to see how your project develops.
I think a good 964 targa is a beautiful car .... IMHO they have so much more character than the later models. Congrats on your purchase! :-)
Cheers
Mike
M-911 is offline  
Old 12-04-2016, 03:46 PM
  #6  
HiWind
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
HiWind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 4,246
Default

wowzer ... this should be fun!
HiWind is offline  
Old 12-04-2016, 10:20 PM
  #7  
Nylasurf
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 267
Default

M-911 and HiWind thanks for the comments...HiWind love following your thread on here...

As I mentioned earlier the RL community has been instrumental in moving me in the direction I have taken. While CPR classic are fully capable of addressing every aspect of the build, I wanted to make sure the heart of the project was handled by someone who specialized in not just air-cooled but our 964/993 motors. Fortunately, Southern California has a number of shops that could build a spectacular motor. There are countless threads on here addressing it. I asked for some sage advice from a fellow RL member/expert engine builder who provided his insight, after all who would an engine builder want to build his engine right. I would have sent my motor up to his shop in a heartbeat, however I thought (wrongly) that everyone in the same neighborhood would expedite the build. I am astounded at how helpful the members are here...and for Steve's assistance I will be forever grateful and he has earned my future business and trust.
Nylasurf is offline  
Old 12-04-2016, 11:00 PM
  #8  
Nylasurf
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 267
Default

After speaking with the few endorsed builders, I decided working with the guy who I felt best meshed with my vision for the project.

Mirage International is a small shop here in San Diego that has quite a reputation for wrenching on all manner of Porsche. They specialize in preparing cars for track duty both building tremendous motors and setting up chassis and suspension. Jae Lee, the man behind Mirage Intl., as anyone who has met him can attest, is a true gentleman and artisan. meshed with what I was planning on doing and honestly, couldn't be happier with the way things have been progressing.

When Singer was building out their 3.8 they collaborated with Jae for his expertise. As exotic as a Singer motor is, and as much as I would love to have that fine piece of jewelry in my car, I rather have the craftsman design the motor that would meet my needs and budget. The brief for the motor is pretty simple, a robust, strong motor that will have the durability of an OEM motor. As I am in Southern California, I wanted the car to be legal as far as emission and CARB which does create challenges. Finally, I wanted a motor that on the street has improved performance that also would translate into usable power on track days and hill climb events. This isn't a track only car and thus the engine build does not reflect those goals.

together we came up with the current engine design brief:

3.8 motor
custom ordered Mahle pistons
Mahle cans
Custom Carrillo conecting rods
Custom Camshaft
Ti springs and connectors
GT3 oil pump
Aluminum pulley

The motor has been torn down, cleaned and Jae has inspected all of the internal bits to see how the motor had held up. The motor was very clean (only 53K+ miles) and Jay has started amassing the parts for the build and taking measurements.





















That is where we stand with the motor currently.
Nylasurf is offline  
Old 12-05-2016, 05:46 AM
  #9  
BLACK-BETTY
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
BLACK-BETTY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 2,387
Default

What an interesting read. You come across very well, full of enthusiasm, with a unique vision and having done lots of homework.

I'm very curious to see how this build goes and read your thoughts once everything is complete.

Subscribed.
BLACK-BETTY is offline  
Old 12-05-2016, 03:18 PM
  #10  
Nylasurf
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 267
Default

Originally Posted by BLACK-BETTY View Post
What an interesting read. You come across very well, full of enthusiasm, with a unique vision and having done lots of homework.

I'm very curious to see how this build goes and read your thoughts once everything is complete.

Subscribed.
Frank, Thank you for your comments...the evolution of Black Betty and the journey getting there was one of the many threads early on that provided inspiration and guidance. Umm, right...correction Curse you Frank for the inspiration do go down this rabbit hole.

As mentioned earlier...I fully set out to begin the project and thread a year or so earlier, however timelines were outside my control. I am hoping for the project to be completed by March and will update as progress is made along the way.
Nylasurf is offline  
Old 12-05-2016, 03:47 PM
  #11  
Paul284pt
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Paul284pt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Yorkshire, England
Posts: 842
Default

Hi Nylasurf,

A great read and a lovely looking car. I've always had a soft spot for Targas so I'm really looking forward to seeing your dream materialise. Keeping it coming.

Good luck,
Paul
Paul284pt is offline  
Old 12-05-2016, 04:54 PM
  #12  
FlyinTomato
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NNJ
Posts: 683
Default

@Nylasurf beautiful car, and loving the blue. nice motor spec. Congrats.

Could you give more info on the shift shaft and ****? I looked at the website. it isn't listed there. You could pm me the info.
FlyinTomato is offline  
Old 12-05-2016, 06:23 PM
  #13  
Nylasurf
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 267
Default

Originally Posted by FlyinTomato View Post
@Nylasurf beautiful car, and loving the blue. nice motor spec. Congrats.

Could you give more info on the shift shaft and ****? I looked at the website. it isn't listed there. You could pm me the info.
I sent you a PM -
Nylasurf is offline  
Old 12-06-2016, 12:49 AM
  #14  
sooner964
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
sooner964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 104
Default

Originally Posted by FlyinTomato View Post
@Nylasurf beautiful car, and loving the blue. nice motor spec. Congrats.

Could you give more info on the shift shaft and ****? I looked at the website. it isn't listed there. You could pm me the info.
I was curious about that, too. This thread looks to be a great read!
sooner964 is offline  
Old 12-06-2016, 03:18 AM
  #15  
Nylasurf
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 267
Default

I wanted to take advantage of Porsche's technical prowess whenever possible, both past and present. My thoughts for the suspension addresses both. The Geometry and set-up has a pretty tried and true setup documented throughout the RL forums - take the front end set-up of a 993 RS or RS EVO and bolt to 964. Easier said than done, as there are many considerations that have to be factored. Rather than go through what has already been expertly detailed by ThomasC2 among others...

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...ghts-long.html

I will focus on the Dampers. I looked at all of the current highly regarded options...Moton, KW, Ohlins, etc. but wanted to take advantage of today's modern technologies (active suspension). Modern Porsche cars have moved on to adaptive suspensions that allow for drivers to adjust the ride to suit the road and driving style. Air suspensions provide a readily available solution and the level of adjust-ability I would strive for everyday driving, but long term durability and the slack of the airbag moving around during track days made it a non consideration.

I spoke with a few shops to see what could be done and almost lost hope until I spoke with Tom Chan at DSCSport. He and his team were truly excited at the proposition of creating an adaptive suspension system specifically for the 964/993. While most of their systems tie into existing sensors in the modern Porsche, the system that they would be developing would included separate 3 axis accelerometers and wheel speed as inputs to provide information to the dynamic dampers. For those unfamiliar with DSCSport you can check out their thread here.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...ion-forum.html

Tom worked with Tractive suspension to design and spec a set of front and rear dampers based on the dimensions of the factory 993 RS shocks and struts. Below are the first images of the rear dampers. Tom tells me they are called Tractive DDA "RTX+".




These include GT3/Cup canisters featuring high and low side compression adjustment for fine tuning as well as their latest dry break fittings.






Swift Springs and helpers have been set up for
Front 50nm + helpers, Rear 90nm + helpers with approximate double the stiffness when the dampers react to their firmest setting.

I don't even have these in hand as Tom is putting the finishing touches on the rears and will have the fronts finished this week. The most unfortunate aspect is I can't let everyone know how they perform as the car won't be ready for a couple more months. (I am sure I will have plenty of offers to test them for me though :P)

A couple of weeks ago a few of the RLers stumbled upon DSCSport's website announcing a 964/993 offering...that is a result of this project. I don't know what set up will be offered for purchase as the set showcased here is the first set made and I have added a couple extras (dry break fittings GT3/Cup Canisters)

Tom and his team at DSCSport have been truly amazing to work with on this aspect of the build.

Last edited by Nylasurf; 12-06-2016 at 04:23 AM.
Nylasurf is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: The making of a Porsche rest-volution


Contact Us Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: