Hello all,

I have a problem, which likely has to do with the dinosaur age suspension of our cars.

So I have PU mounts everywhere and KW Clubsport with upper mounts.

It is quick and it is fun, but the steering feel is lackluster in comparison to say my brothers stock GT86 (FR-S).

Any ideas what may improve steering feel?

 

Ditch the power steering.

 

stock 964 has 0 scrub radius which contributes to a very numb on center feel

the following help
max caster
a little more neg camber
0 toe
wider fronts wheels and or tires w/ a little more o/s, 8 ET52 instead of 8ET50

 

Replace inner tie rods with fresh ones, and from the C4/RS if you have a C2. They are stiffer.

Thomas

 

I feel the same way. Mine is a C4 with Walrod bushings and KWV3s and RS height -5. Not as responsive as my previous E46 M3 with Ground Controls or my 996TT with Motons. Not even close.

 

Lacking steering weight or steering feel ? Or both ?
As Frank said, if you want both, ditch the PAS rack and fit the RS item, just don't come back saying the car has reduced steering lock and is hard work to drive when manouvering at low speed !

 

Did you get out the wrong side of the bed today?

As bill rightly points out alignment is waaaay more important than components when it comes to how a 911 feels. You can have the best ever fandango shocks springs and bushes fitted but without alignment specs all "how it feels" chat is kinda irrelevant. Thankfully all 911s are designed in a way you can make them feel however you want but you need to find the right setup dude not the 'upgrade' parts sales dude.

 

Nope, seems you did though "dude"

Thanks for the "education". I'm currently on my 4th 964 RS, whilst having also owned three Mk 1 996 GT3's, a couple of 996 GT2's, a 996 GT RS, two 997 GT3's and a 993 RS.
I suspect I've had more alignments done on watercooled and aircooled Pork than you've had hot dinners ! But feel free to have a pop. Why don't you


And you are ...... ? ? The "dude" swapping his engine

 

Easy tiger, you were the first to throw the muck, i just pointed it out.

And there lies the problem, you had it done whereas i did it!

Rtfm dude, you might learn something

 

Yep, course you did dude, I'm the tetchy one on here today. I wonder, did I wander onto the 993 forum by mistake ?

That makes the presumption that just because you can do it, you can do it well dude ...... furthermore, why have a dog and bark yourself ?

Nice.
I already did learn "something" dude, that being you're rather quick to jump to conclusions by misinterpreting others posts. The pleasure has been all yours

 

That doesn't even make sense?

Anyways, only my first sentence in my first post was directed to you and was very much said in jest, perhaps the smiley was missing but no malice was ever intended so apologies if it was received in that way.

The rest of my post was directed at the OP as I wanted to help him get his car to drive how he wanted without buying unnecessary kit, thats all.

Back to the original subject, get yrself to a decent alignment shop that do 911's and take it from there. Hopefully they will chat to you about what you want to change about how the car feels and make the adjustments required to get you where you want to be. Plenty alignment specs all over rennlist - get a range and get somewhere within them that makes it feel right for you.

Good luck.

 

What are your geo settings?

If bushes, tie rods, top mounts, shocks etc are shot then this will make a difference.

 

It's not the alignment settings that Bill is talking about at all. Scrub radius is the amount of radius or swing that the wheel/tire travel as it pivots on the steering axis. The closer this axis is to the centerline of the wheel, the less scrub radius you have. If you've ever been around a riding lawn mower or go-kart (racing or not) you'll notice the large arch the wheel travels across when you turn the steering wheel. When you couple scrub radius with the other geometric elements of the front suspension (camber, caster, wheel width, etc) you get a certain amount of weight jacking at each side when you turn the steering wheel. The factory minimized weight jacking in part on the 964s by zeroing the scrub radius. As noted by all, this has its pluses and minuses. If you want to add scrub radius, put some wide wheels on with a lot of negative offset

 

Correct, I'll add that a little goes a long way here, stock 7ET55 is zero scrub and little to no feed back through the wheel, 8ET50 scrub goes to -5, 8ET52 scrub goes to -7. As long as it's negative the ABS will be happy and more gives you more feedback through the wheel which I assume is meant as feel. Hopefully you have maxed the camber as that is another big factor.

If you want the car to turn better that'a different question that does include the wider 8" wheels, things that I have found to help my 993 turn better after the basic alignment was taken care of,
in order
8.5" wheels
mono-ball tie rods, w/ RS wheel carriers to eliminate bump steer
235 instead of 225 tires

 

Are you guys sure a stock 964 has 0 scrub radius? Asking because moving the wheel outward, via lower offset or spacer will make the scrub radius less negative.. If ET55 was 0, then ET50 will be +5mm (& ET52 = +3mm) so not likely.

Does Porsche define kingpin offset @ the wheel center or ground level? My hunch is that 0 offset is reported at wheel center height, which translates to a healthy negative value at the contact patch via the SAI. Anyone know kingpin angle for the narrow vs. wide 964's?

Steering wheel wasn't mentioned yet - changing to a smaller diameter usually helps by 1) increasing effort by reducing radius & 2) increasing effective gain (less hand movement for same change in wheel angle).

Careful with camber & toe, too much negative for either can make the steering overly 'darty'.