tcsracing1

For the same money a real deal 1970s RS could likey be had.
But you cannot mess with a real RS. Too colectable to mess with or modify.

The Singer can run circles around the RS and without having to worry about concours parts and condition.

It is a toy for those who can afford both.

Nurburger

Don't take the discussion too personally....

Jaye Bass

What do you mean when you say "development of an existing system does not equal engineering (at least in the pure form)"?

I find this comment ludicrous at best. All of the relevant improvements that fit within a systems approach are bona fide engineering tasks. Singer combines craftsmanship and engineering within the context of an overall system behavior that is to be commended. Getting all the parts/systems to work together in a cohesive framework is where a fair amount of the development money goes.

For example, it seems that they went after a certain look for the car then engineered the suspension to preserve the look while giving the car targeted driving dynamics. These two things likely evolved in tandem so that one effects the other. Keeping this all in harmony is no easy task and is definitely engineering.

Vandit

Go back and re-watch the video. It sounds like they did the opposite.

Their customization starting point was the wheel/tire setup. Per Rob's quotes in the vid, they then "spent 2 years clay modeling fenders to cover the wheel/tire package" and basically "put the right wheel/tire/brake package on the car" and gave it "just enough bodywork" to cover that wheel/tire setup.

The suspension dimensions were unmodified narrow body 964 specs.

If you study these pics, you can see they are still running the front suspension side members in the narrow body configuration. Other details you can see here is that they are running a vacuum brake booster, likely a 993 unit in conjunction w/ a 993 master cylinder.

mf_rsr

Seeing as this thread is still going, what do you guys think about Singer's originality? I remember their orange launch car was very similar to TRE's hot rod in appearence but built much earlier and I think he was in the sacred r gruppe?

bobaines

That is because that car is Rob's RGuppe car. The unique clear plexi deck grill and side stripe are design tie ins to Rob's original.

STUARTQ

I know this thread has been sleeping for the last 2 weeks and maybe no one wants to see it come back to life, but here is my 2cnts.
In my opinion, Singer have created a beautiful car, that does what they have built it to do. I'm a fan of Chris Harris as many of us are and he's given it the thumbs up, which can only mean one thing for me.

For many of us buying a 911 means what ever they can afford at the time, some buy their cars will all intend to modify them, some will only put the minimum amount of money into them to keep them going.

I know, that if I was in a position to buy a singer I would probably do so, knowing that many hours and $ have been invested in getting the car right.

Read some of the build threads from one of the UK's most respected 911 specialists and see how many hours they spend getting individual build right for their customers, in some cases these go on for years, now tha can be down to their customers ability to fund the development, or it could just be the extra time taken to get it right, either way, the chances are, you order a singer and you get a fully functioning car that that doesn't need further fettling. How much would the equivalent UK or other specialist build cost, quite possible a similar sum to the Singer?

And which one is more likely to hold its value?

Penguinracer

I'd like to see the crash safety tests on the Singer so that they can be compared to other $US500K cars such as McLarens, the 918 etc because if it isn't appreciably safer than a standard $US30K 964 I'd rather spend my money where a good chunk of the purchase price went into the sort of engineering which one day might just save my life - should I confuse ambition with talent!
Tim

STUARTQ

Why would, or should it be safer than a standard 964?

Penguinracer

A thoroughly engineered car must & should be safe & we should set those safety expectations appropriately higher when the purchase price is $US500K & there are presentations about high performance, high-quality engineering, high-tech materials & bespoke build. Fine - show me your empirical impact performance data & allow me to compare it to other automotive products of comparable value which are competing for custom.

If the engineering is truly worth $US500K then it should withstand scrutiny with similarly priced competitors & a buyer can be assured as to the DEPTH of the engineering & not merely its BREADTH.

STUARTQ

Well, the platform is a 964, the only difference being the front and rear bumpers, wings and I understand the roof panel.
Their aim at the beginning was to build a lighter car, as is the aim of many owners, ie lighten their cars for better performance.

I don't believe anyone wants to build or own a car that is unsafe at the outset, not these days anyway.

They are throughly engineered, in the handling, engine and gearbox, the shell is virtually standard 964. the cost elements are in the detail and build quality etc.

If it meets the regulations of the country its being sold to, thats what matters. You want more, don't buy a Singer, buy a modern super car!

tcsracing1

Are you serious?

tcsracing1

i have the perfect car for you

STUARTQ

or a Volvo!!!!

reed

The Singer is a beautiful resto-mod, nothing more, nothings less. Along the lines of Chip Foose or Boyd Coddington, Rob Dickinson's imbuing the iconic 911 with his own personal aesthetic. And the details are beautiful--just like so many other resto-mods. I think the real, and only, reason the Singer is getting all the attention is he's the first guy to resto-mod a 911. Put all of the Singer details on a Chevy or Lincoln or Ford, and all of the sudden it is ho-hum. Seen it all a hundred times before. Does a resto-mod Camaro go, stop and handle better than a stock car. Sure does. It'd be hard not to improve on technology that is forty--or twenty--years old.

The Singer is not really about engineering. It's about the artistic statement. Sure, Singer makes all the "new" pieces play well together. But no one is looking at a Singer to learn anything. Compare a Singer to a Ruf, and the engineering thing becomes clear. Look at Ruf when they came on the scene in the '80s. Their cars were giant slayers and truly engineering masterpieces. Remember that video of the CTR on the Ring. Now, that's engineering.