Disaster - oil pump failure?
12-03-2011, 05:02 PM
#31
RL Technical Advisor
Its the parts bill that comprises the lion's share of the total cost and that cannot be determined until everything is thoroughly inspected and measured.
12-03-2011, 06:03 PM
#33
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I had a similar experience when I experienced a noise that was like timing chains - a noise you dont get on 964's but common place on older 911's
- I was going driving from London to Alderley Edge to have the car serviced - 120,000 miles - I bought the car new, it had the most perfect service history possible, the same engineer, in the same Porsche main agent, nothing but Moblie 1 - I was told I had experienced oil starvation to the third main bearing, which ran a bearing and scattered shrapnel throughout the engine.
Porsche helped me buy a 28,000 mile replacement, I replaced every component that had been exposed to the original oil.
Lines, thermostat, cooler, tank
Details were posted on this site all those years ago - it must have been around 1999 or there abouts.
There will be details in the archives.
I was given the impression that oil starvation was something that did occur occasionally.
However, your situation looks more questionable ??
By the way I still have my car - one owner from new in1989 - 175,000 miles and say no more - I still love it but find the BMW 330D Auto Touring M-Tech with all the bells and whistles easier in Chelsea London, the kids are now 11 and 13 - a bit big for the rear - but the same car grew up with my other kids as well - the 39, 35 and the 31 year old - together with the earlier models
- I was going driving from London to Alderley Edge to have the car serviced - 120,000 miles - I bought the car new, it had the most perfect service history possible, the same engineer, in the same Porsche main agent, nothing but Moblie 1 - I was told I had experienced oil starvation to the third main bearing, which ran a bearing and scattered shrapnel throughout the engine.
Porsche helped me buy a 28,000 mile replacement, I replaced every component that had been exposed to the original oil.
Lines, thermostat, cooler, tank
Details were posted on this site all those years ago - it must have been around 1999 or there abouts.
There will be details in the archives.
I was given the impression that oil starvation was something that did occur occasionally.
However, your situation looks more questionable ??
By the way I still have my car - one owner from new in1989 - 175,000 miles and say no more - I still love it but find the BMW 330D Auto Touring M-Tech with all the bells and whistles easier in Chelsea London, the kids are now 11 and 13 - a bit big for the rear - but the same car grew up with my other kids as well - the 39, 35 and the 31 year old - together with the earlier models
12-03-2011, 07:50 PM
#34
Drifting
It doesn't take much to clog one of the oil spray holes, so this is more common. The oil pump can deal with stuff that small. It's complete oil pump failure that is rare, unless something foreign & much bigger was introduced into the system.
12-12-2011, 04:07 PM
#36
Super Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So the car is now home in my garage as I decide what to do. I’ll either rebuild the current engine or I’m toying with the idea of putting a later 993 Varioram motor in.
In terms of root cause. Still no real advance. All my mechanic can tell me is that the car has zero oil pressure.
My shop is convinced that the work they did was not the cause. which, in addition to some suspension work, included the following:
• Remove and replace the timing cover gasket sets
• Remove and replace the front crankshaft seal
• Power Steering rack replacement along with hoses, reservoir etc
• Remove and reinstall oil lines from and to the thermostat (given the recent thread around oil lines see https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...f-warning.html ) Hoses were taken off for rebuilding but the old ones were put back on as the shops hose suppliers could not fabricate new, better quality ones than OEM – key ones were 964 207 135 04 Oil Cooler to Thermostat, 964 207 133 04 Thermostat to Oil Cooler and 964 207 254 08 Oil Filter Housing to Thermostat.
Their hypothesis is that there are splines and collars on the oil pump that do sometimes break and that this is likely the cause of an oil pump failure. The oil line replacement would not have been a factor as the engine rattled within a few seconds of starting – likely the far side timing chain rattling as it was the first part to be without oil – and so the engine would not have triggered the thermostat or oil from that part of the lubrication system. But until the engine is opened we won’t know what caused the loss of oil pressure or what else needs replacing.
All thoughts and advice continue to be welcome.
In terms of root cause. Still no real advance. All my mechanic can tell me is that the car has zero oil pressure.
My shop is convinced that the work they did was not the cause. which, in addition to some suspension work, included the following:
• Remove and replace the timing cover gasket sets
• Remove and replace the front crankshaft seal
• Power Steering rack replacement along with hoses, reservoir etc
• Remove and reinstall oil lines from and to the thermostat (given the recent thread around oil lines see https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...f-warning.html ) Hoses were taken off for rebuilding but the old ones were put back on as the shops hose suppliers could not fabricate new, better quality ones than OEM – key ones were 964 207 135 04 Oil Cooler to Thermostat, 964 207 133 04 Thermostat to Oil Cooler and 964 207 254 08 Oil Filter Housing to Thermostat.
Their hypothesis is that there are splines and collars on the oil pump that do sometimes break and that this is likely the cause of an oil pump failure. The oil line replacement would not have been a factor as the engine rattled within a few seconds of starting – likely the far side timing chain rattling as it was the first part to be without oil – and so the engine would not have triggered the thermostat or oil from that part of the lubrication system. But until the engine is opened we won’t know what caused the loss of oil pressure or what else needs replacing.
All thoughts and advice continue to be welcome.
12-12-2011, 05:24 PM
#39
This shop doesn't happen to reside in Richardson does it?
12-12-2011, 05:37 PM
#40
RL Technical Advisor
So the car is now home in my garage as I decide what to do. I’ll either rebuild the current engine or I’m toying with the idea of putting a later 993 Varioram motor in.
In terms of root cause. Still no real advance. All my mechanic can tell me is that the car has zero oil pressure.
My shop is convinced that the work they did was not the cause. which, in addition to some suspension work, included the following:
• Remove and replace the timing cover gasket sets
• Remove and replace the front crankshaft seal
• Power Steering rack replacement along with hoses, reservoir etc
• Remove and reinstall oil lines from and to the thermostat (given the recent thread around oil lines see https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...f-warning.html ) Hoses were taken off for rebuilding but the old ones were put back on as the shops hose suppliers could not fabricate new, better quality ones than OEM – key ones were 964 207 135 04 Oil Cooler to Thermostat, 964 207 133 04 Thermostat to Oil Cooler and 964 207 254 08 Oil Filter Housing to Thermostat.
Their hypothesis is that there are splines and collars on the oil pump that do sometimes break and that this is likely the cause of an oil pump failure. The oil line replacement would not have been a factor as the engine rattled within a few seconds of starting – likely the far side timing chain rattling as it was the first part to be without oil – and so the engine would not have triggered the thermostat or oil from that part of the lubrication system. But until the engine is opened we won’t know what caused the loss of oil pressure or what else needs replacing.
All thoughts and advice continue to be welcome.
In terms of root cause. Still no real advance. All my mechanic can tell me is that the car has zero oil pressure.
My shop is convinced that the work they did was not the cause. which, in addition to some suspension work, included the following:
• Remove and replace the timing cover gasket sets
• Remove and replace the front crankshaft seal
• Power Steering rack replacement along with hoses, reservoir etc
• Remove and reinstall oil lines from and to the thermostat (given the recent thread around oil lines see https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...f-warning.html ) Hoses were taken off for rebuilding but the old ones were put back on as the shops hose suppliers could not fabricate new, better quality ones than OEM – key ones were 964 207 135 04 Oil Cooler to Thermostat, 964 207 133 04 Thermostat to Oil Cooler and 964 207 254 08 Oil Filter Housing to Thermostat.
Their hypothesis is that there are splines and collars on the oil pump that do sometimes break and that this is likely the cause of an oil pump failure. The oil line replacement would not have been a factor as the engine rattled within a few seconds of starting – likely the far side timing chain rattling as it was the first part to be without oil – and so the engine would not have triggered the thermostat or oil from that part of the lubrication system. But until the engine is opened we won’t know what caused the loss of oil pressure or what else needs replacing.
All thoughts and advice continue to be welcome.
Fact is, only detailed forensics will tell the story of what happened and in what sequence.
Once that's all completed, you will know whether you have any potential recourse or not. Further, you'll know whether this engine is salvageable or not.
